good point the roman papacy does suck. — christian2017

I would see the pope and half his pedophile protecting bishops in jail if I had the power.

I would see all governments fly right and bring those bastards to justice.

Bullets are too good for them and collectively are all contributing to pedophilia.

Shame on us all.

Regards
DL

I would see the pope and half his pedophile protecting bishops in jail if I had the power.

I would see all governments fly right and bring those bastards to justice.

Bullets are too good for them and collectively are all contributing to pedophilia.

Shame on us all. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Unless me and you want to go to jail for 80 years, doing a citizen arrest isn't the best option. But if 80 years in jail is something you can manage, whatever god or alien force out there might reward you greatly.

Yes the Roman Papacy really sucks.

Do you believe in aliens?

If I curse a pedophile protecting pope, or a death camp promoter and accomplish, does it matter which one of the many I name when speaking in general terms? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I do not know what you prattling about. You claimed that the pope at the financed Nazi death camps, and the "reference" you provided described something different. I was simply asking to cut down on hyperbole and use more clear language.
And whatever Catholic priests did in Croatia, it does not change the fact that the Muftii of Jerusalem was advising Hitler and recruiting muslim Nazi SS regiments.

Suicide stats belie this. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Just this morning while playing a word game I realized "belie" is part of the word "believe". That seems to indicate whose words are part of the consciousness of the "fruit of knowledge".

I do not know what you prattling about. You claimed that the pope at the financed Nazi death camps, and the "reference" you provided described something different. I was simply asking to cut down on hyperbole and use more clear language.
And whatever Catholic priests did in Croatia, it does not change the fact that the Muftii of Jerusalem was advising Hitler and recruiting muslim Nazi SS regiments. — Nobeernolife

Perhaps your post would be more pleasant if you understood what we can understand depends on what you already know. When people are from different cultures are trying to communicate, what they know will be different, and these people may have trouble understanding each other. Stop finding fault in the poster, and take this cultural difference into consideration. Because you are not understanding people that does not mean without question they are doing a poor job of communicating. Politely ask more questions or politely explain your different preceptive from your culture or study of history and be tactful.

Perhaps your post would be more pleasant if you understood what we can understand depends on what you already know. When people are from different cultures are trying to communicate, what they know will be different, and these people may have trouble understanding each other. Stop finding fault in the poster, and take this cultural difference into consideration. — Athena

Reading comprehension? I did not find "fault in the poster", I said the reference that he posted does not match the claim. Nothing to do with culture.

Yes the Roman Papacy really sucks.

Do you believe in aliens? — christian2017

Wow, what are you thinking? That seems to be an insult, not a reasonable argument? Is it your intention to dismiss reason and insult someone? It requires a lot of effort to stick reasoning and I am sure you do want to do better.

Reading comprehension? I did not find "fault in the poster", I said the reference that he posted does not match the claim. Nothing to do with culture. — Nobeernolife

Hum, that is true, but for some reason, your posts seem to carry a knife.

I do not know what you prattling about. — Nobeernolife

That is not an innocent statement and I do not enjoy such cutting remarks. They are like a cloud ruining a sunny day.

What is important for a person can be what is true. The culture wars are wrapped around that connection. Being a progressive is about embracing a better way to do things and developing a more just society. It also is about the connection between the personal and the political that is a the heart of the different iterations of "Christianity."

One of the interesting elements of Elaine Pagels' book about the Gnostic Gospels is that the demand for inclusion by the church was not just about all the bad things it produced. A vision of the universal seems to be a terrible thing in many ways. But sorting out what should be embraced or rejected on that basis is exactly what the connection between the personal and the political needs to struggle with. — Valentinus

Now that is a good post. I am saying so with the hope others will follow your example.

You make me ponder your thoughts, and I notice I am doing so with my immediate concern for my sister who has been evicted because she will not stop caring for the homeless. No one cared about her activity until the pandemic hit and the risk of mingling with others has gone sky-high. I love my sister and I support what she is doing, but this morning I woke with the awareness that she is putting the homeless in greater risk by insisting on mingling with them. Especially with no home, she can not keep herself clean and this escalates the risk to herself and everyone else.

I want to make a point here. My sister is judging herself and everyone else with a value that we should not turn our backs on vulnerable people. I agree with her that ignoring the needs of the people she helps is equal to a neighborhood hearing a woman scream for help and looking out their windows to see that she is being beaten, and doing nothing because they do not want to get involved. That is obviously a human wrong and we are obviously committing this wrong. However, if we judge the circumstances, and that she is a risk to herself and everyone else, including the people she wants to help and her family, then what is right and what is wrong is different. Our present reality demands a different action.

I have concerns that religion leads to judging people. Science leads to judging circumstances. Perhaps we want to be mindful of these different judgments? Moral thinking is avoiding harm and that is a balance of human values and science.

“God's law is 'right reason.' When perfectly understood it is called 'wisdom.' When applied by government in regulating human relations it is called 'justice.”
― Marcus Tullius Cicero — Cicero

For those who don't already know, for Cicero god's law is nature or universal law, not the stories told by Greeks or written in holy books.

Unless me and you want to go to jail for 80 years, doing a citizen arrest isn't the best option. But if 80 years in jail is something you can manage, whatever god or alien force out there might reward you greatly.

Yes the Roman Papacy really sucks.

Do you believe in aliens? — christian2017

To think we are the only intelligent species in the universe, is betting against the odds. So yes, I think that there are intelligent life out there.

Would I spend the rest of my life in jail to end the damage the pedophile protectors and facilitators out there are doing?

Yes.

I risked 18 years in jail when I was 36ish for a lesser cause.

Regards
DL

Athena — Athena

No argument on this.

Regards
DL

Yes the Roman Papacy really sucks.

Do you believe in aliens?
— christian2017

Wow, what are you thinking? That seems to be an insult, not a reasonable argument? Is it your intention to dismiss reason and insult someone? It requires a lot of effort to stick reasoning and I am sure you do want to do better. — Athena

What? Did you read the whole conversation. Scroll up and see what the bishop says about the Roman Papacy, and then if you still feel like it get back to me.

Unless me and you want to go to jail for 80 years, doing a citizen arrest isn't the best option. But if 80 years in jail is something you can manage, whatever god or alien force out there might reward you greatly.

Yes the Roman Papacy really sucks.

Do you believe in aliens?
— christian2017

To think we are the only intelligent species in the universe, is betting against the odds. So yes, I think that there are intelligent life out there.

Would I spend the rest of my life in jail to end the damage the pedophile protectors and facilitators out there are doing?

Yes.

I risked 18 years in jail when I was 36ish for a lesser cause. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yeah i've done some shit too. Send me a private message if you would like. No wrong answer. I respect it if you would like to keep that sort of thing under wraps.

I think alot of supernatural stuff could possibly be explained with a naturalist alien phenonmenon or an atheist powerful alien phenonmennnnooonnonon (spelling). I tried so hard to spell that word right.

Now that we agree on something such as aliens we can be best friends now. Even though i do believe in a God, i have to admit all miracles/coincidences can be explained with alien technology. I'm still not giving up my christian faith. Hopefully i die before i give up my christian faith and then it will be a mute point.

Paul in the new testament wasn't 100% sure of his faith. I won't quote it because i don't want to evangelize.

Yeah i've done some shit too. Send me a private message if you would like. — christian2017

No need to go private.

I live in Canada, which now has legalized cannabis. When I was 36ish, I saw the immorality and futility of our drug war against the children in Canada and wanted to fight the law. I tried the right way till I ran into a wall of costs I could not handle so decide to mule till I was caught and attack the law on their dime instead of mine. I fought the law and they won by cheating and throwing everything, including this guilty as hell man and his case out of court, because they did not want my challenge to win.

I will hear your anecdotal story here or in P.M should you wish to share it.

Regards
DL

I'm still not giving up my christian faith. — christian2017

Faith in a good god, I would not question or try to change.

Tell us why you would even want to have faith in an evil genocidal god, who created a vile homophobic and misogynous religion, and I will see if we can be friends or not.

Regards
DL

Hum, that is true, but for some reason, your posts seem to carry a knife. — Athena

My posts carry a knife? What is that even supposed to mean??

Nobeernolife — Nobeernolife

I was just wondering; are you a guy or a gal?

I know your avatar is a female but wanted to confirm this.

Regards
DL

I was just wondering; are you a guy or a gal?
I know your avatar is a female but wanted to confirm this. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Thanks for your interest, but I am into talking about topics and not discussing "me" or "you".
Now do you admit that your claim that the pope financed nazi death camps was false?

I think you missed the point. I don't know about you but I find it very hard to focus on the subject when I want to lash out at someone. I also I know I like myself much better when I can do that, than when I regret something I said. This is about being a better person, and the better human beings we become, the more good we can contribute and the less harm we do. Attacking people will not improve us or them. Focusing on the reasoning can improve both.

My posts carry a knife? What is that even supposed to mean?? — Nobeernolife

Okay, I will try this again.

I do not know what you prattling about — Nobeernolife

Do you see a cutting remark in that quote? I could be wrong, but that appears to be a disrespectful comment, a cutting remark. That is what I mean by your post carry a knife. Often they come with cutting comments.

Nobeernolife — Nobeernolife

Thanks for your informative reply.

Regards
DL

The whole debate annoys me because if God wanted us to remain ignorant He could have designed our brains to be no different than the rest of the animals. — Athena

Doesn't every sort of animal have its own sort of brain?

Aren't all the brains similar to all the others in some respect or other? And some more than others in this or that respect?

God could have designed our brains to make it impossible for us to know things He doesn't want us to know and make it impossible for us to think about them. — Athena

Doesn't it seem reasonable to suppose that the structure of our brains does indeed make it impossible for us to know some things and impossible for us to think about some things?

Is there some reason to suppose that minds like ours can "know everything" and "think about everything"?

Is there some reason to suppose that something exists that "knows everything" and that can "think about everything"?

How should we characterize "knowledge of everything" and the capacity to "think about everything"?

God could have designed us to mate for life like many birds have life long mates and that would save a lot of marriages. — Athena

I've heard that many of the birds that mate for life catch some action on the side now and then. Perhaps we should say in this regard they aren't so different from the humans who behave likewise.

But we have a greater capacity to consider a wide range of potential behaviors, values, ways of life. We can learn to set rules and goals for ourselves, and strive to live by those rules and work toward those goals.

Does a chimp know the difference between good and evil? Do humans behave like chimps? Do chimps think like humans? — Athena

Yes, absolutely.

It's well established that chimps are among the nonhuman animals with something like a sense of fairness, compassion, community, friendship, and playfulness. They're intelligent problem-solvers with creative imagination and reliable memory. They form rational expectations informed by experience. They conceive ranges of alternative outcomes and adopt attitudes of expectation analogous to our attitudes of belief, wonder, doubt, and hope.

On the other hand, consider the peculiar atrocities and the irresponsible, selfish, and hateful acts committed by human beings every day.

The capacities that open new horizons of knowledge, freedom, and power for us lead also to new horizons of confusion and error, irresponsibility, and depravity.

you were vague so i'll be vague. I stole X dollars worth of stuff from a store with the intention of being caught. Cost me over 50k and a security clearance after some other stuff happened. the record was worse than anything time in prison would have entailed.

you should reconsider being my friend since we both believe in aliens. if God/Jesus is just an alien, who can blame him for allowing people to live their lives here on earth. If i'm wrong about the Bible how does that hurt you, i will just die and possibly be judged (based on what aspects or percentage of the bible is true). Once again Paul in the new testament wasn't 100% on his faith. i believe a short life in my case would be a blessing.

The capacities that open new horizons of knowledge, freedom, and power for us lead also to new horizons of confusion and error, irresponsibility, and depravity. — Cabbage Farmer

Yet every marker for evil is at the best level that we have ever enjoyed. Death by violence, crime, poverty, slavery etc.

Evolutionists are having a hard time explaining why we are so good to each other.

Your glass is half full but in reality it is overflowing with good.

You might want to check stats and facts on issues.

Even as we speak, we have a new virus killing some of us. We hate that it kills, but should be thankful that it is only killing a relatively small % of us.

Regards
DL

you were vague so i'll be vague. I stole X dollars worth of stuff from a store with the intention of being caught — christian2017

I showed my end game of changing a bad law.

What was your end game. What was the purpose of your theft?

If i'm wrong about the Bible how does that hurt you, — christian2017

I am a white male. Religions cannot hurt me. All they can do is insult me in knowing that people are stupid enough to follow satanic religions en masse.

If you promote those immoral religions, you are satanic.

My fight is not about me nor for my benefit. It is for my children and grand children and all women and gays. Not to mention the mental improvement of those who promote garbage morals.

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote. You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Regards
DL

you should reconsider being my friend since we both believe in aliens. — christian2017

What on Earth does "believe in aliens" mean to you?

Is that actually the best wording you could come up with to communicate what you actually mean?

your going to have to go more in depth than that to find out more about my personal story. If you would like you send me a private message with more detail.

Many people have "rebuked" you on much of your crap (pertaining to your last post to me)

Please don't quote the Hitler/Holocaust era every time your trying to make a strong point.

"Do you believe in aliens?" is equivalent to "Do you believe in cheese?". If you believe in cheese and or aliens than you either believe that aliens or cheese exist. How could i have worded that better?

Cabbage Farmer
231
The whole debate annoys me because if God wanted us to remain ignorant He could have designed our brains to be no different than the rest of the animals.
— Athena
Doesn't every sort of animal have its own sort of brain?

Aren't all the brains similar to all the others in some respect or other? And some more than others in this or that respect? — Cabbage Farmer

Our brains are the product of evolution. We being with the reptilian brain. The next layer is the evolved mammalian brain. Then comes the devolved cortex that is what separates us from the rest of the animals.

Doesn't it seem reasonable to suppose that the structure of our brains does indeed make it impossible for us to know some things and impossible for us to think about some things? — Cabbage Farmer

Absolutely! This is why I think it is so important to dump religious myths and deal with the reality of our evolution. Definitely our thinking is very limited, but we have far more freedom of choice than any other animal. Actually our survival depended on males getting as many females pregnant as possible, and the division of labor resulting in males and females evolving differently. Our survival depended on groups, not single unit families advocated by the Bible that was written by city dwellers. Competition and jealousy is instinctual and our morality evolved to reduce the tensions when we became better thinkers.

Is there some reason to suppose that minds like ours can "know everything" and "think about everything"? — Cabbage Farmer

The more we know, the more we know of what we do not know. What we know is extremely limited and we seriously need to respect that. What we think about is extremely limited. Proof, what do you know of bureaucratic organization and our liberty or lack of it? How much time have you spent thinking about that? Before you can even begin to think about that, there a few books you need to read so you know what there is to know. We have specialized because it is absolutely impossible for individuals to be experts on all things.

Is there some reason to suppose that something exists that "knows everything" and that can "think about everything"? — Cabbage Farmer

I used to contemplate that and the more I learn of quantum physics the less confident I am of such a consciousness. However, clearly matter reacts to matter and I think this forms a consciousness, but it is not a thinking consciousness as we have, any more than a worm reacting to sunlight is thinking as we think.

How should we characterize "knowledge of everything" and the capacity to "think about everything"? — Cabbage Farmer

We should not. We should not confuse having a lot of facts with having knowledge. To my way of thinking, a fact is not knowledge until experience gives us a sense of meaning.

I've heard that many of the birds that mate for life catch some action on the side now and then. Perhaps we should say in this regard they aren't so different from the humans who behave likewise. — Cabbage Farmer

No, we should not say that. The only other animal I know of that is as sexual as humans is the bonobo.
Birds do not mate until they have built a nest and their ability to build nests is restricted by nature. They can not overpopulate and they don't have sex for any other reason. For humans, sex is not just about reproduction but, as it is for bonobos, sex is also about bonding and social organization.

It's well established that chimps are among the nonhuman animals with something like a sense of fairness, compassion, community, friendship, and playfulness. They're intelligent problem-solvers with creative imagination and reliable memory. They form rational expectations informed by experience. They conceive ranges of alternative outcomes and adopt attitudes of expectation analogous to our attitudes of belief, wonder, doubt, and hope.

On the other hand, consider the peculiar atrocities and the irresponsible, selfish, and hateful acts committed by human beings every day. — Cabbage Farmer

Not all mammals are social animals that depend on the group, however chimps and humans are mammals that are social animals dependent on the group. I don't know of atrocities committed by humans being worse than the atrocities committed by animals. Our technology can make our actions more dramatic but I think the nature of the act is the same?

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