the Christian promise of eternal life does not explicitly promise an end to suffering — John
Can you cite a Christian text that explicitly promises an end to suffering? — John
Buddhism doesn't promise Nirvana — John
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4). — Thorongil
This is highly debatable. What do you mean by this and by "promise?" — Thorongil
No specific mention of suffering here. — John
By "promise" I mean "guarantee". — John
And even if it did promise Nirvana it doesn't promise it for you. — John
I can't tell if you're being serious here. It's a really irritating response in either case. — Thorongil
Then most Buddhists would probably say no. However, certain sects might say otherwise. Chan/Zen Buddhism would say that one is already enlightened, one simply doesn't realize it yet, owing to the defilements (greed, hatred, and delusion) clouding the mind. The Pure Land school gives virtually a guarantee of enlightenment if one is reborn in Amitabha's Western Paradise — Thorongil
Your irritations are a matter for you. Tears, mourning, crying and pain do not exhaust what suffering is. — John
There is suffering involved in striving to become ever better, for example. Nowhere that I am aware of does the Bible say that once you die, your efforts are at an end. — John
what chance do we have of escaping it and becoming enlightened — John
I like aspects of Buddhism but the cosmogony makes no sense to me. — John
Suffering is sometimes necessary for improvement, I agree, but then it is being used as a means, not an end. — Thorongil
But if one suffers in heaven, then there isn't much to distinguish it from hell. — Thorongil
Okay. And you're more attracted to Christianity, I take it? If so, what prevents you from formally converting? — Thorongil
Either way you roast — Cavacava
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