:up:

(pardon the re-post)

addendum:

Today on Earth One, where bad news ain't mostly "fake news" (FOX Noise), the latest global effect of the 2nd wave of covid-19 outbreaks: collapse of crude oil prices below $0 per barrel (i.e. canary in the depression mine).

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52350082

:mask:

2020 election will be a referendum on tRUMP's handling of PANDEMIC & DEPRESSION ...

https://youtu.be/ozzwMBvvUiA :victory:

Joe is now hot on the trail for a running mate. What woman will he pick to shift the polling balance in the swing states? The excitement is palpable! :gasp:

I might go with Tulsi Gabbard. I think the Dems should try to reach across the aisle as much as possible, and also try to snag up right-leaning independents and moderates. The vast majority of Sanders and Warren people aren't going to vote for Trump anyway. I think Tulsi appeals to the on-the-fence demographic more than any of the other female candidates. War veteran, pretty smart, hip, command presence, etc. It might not make a huge difference who he picks, but sometimes these races boil down to a game of inches.

I might go with Tulsi Gabbard — Wolfman

She would be at the top of my list. But I'd be shocked if it happened.

She has only to keep her fingers out of her eyes to be better than Sarah Palin (and perhaps even Joe himself). But tell us: it seems to me when I've seen interviews with her - not very many nor for long - that she seems a little odd and strange. To you also, or not?

But tell us: it seems to me when I've seen interviews with her - not very many nor for long - that she seems a little odd and strange. To you also, or not? — tim wood

There was a time I was very, very positive on Tulsi...and that includes the many times I saw her interviewed. But then came along the campaign...and it was like a Jekell and Hyde transformation. The more she said during the campaign, the less I liked her. By the end...I was hoping she would leave the Democratic Party and become a Republican.

I would bet big bucks she will not be the choice.

I still like Kamela Harris. That is one tough woman. She's got a lot of strikes against her (so does Joe), but I sure as hell would not want to be debating her. If Pence is the VP choice for Trump (I am thinking he will not be)...Harris would destroy him.

I still like Kamela Harris. — Frank Apisa

From her voice and how she spoke, I heard alcohol, and lot of it. I don't know of any fact of the matter, but I heard it.

?

I'd prefer Tulsi to Kamala. Enough with lawyers.

What is it with 'mercans and old white men?

One of my previous jobs involved working with Kamala's DA office. She's the type of person who will say one thing and do the complete opposite. I think she has integrity issues. My politics don't perfectly align with Tulsi's, but I think she is a better strategic choice.

Listen mack, lemme tell ya something, way back when there were only two genders and not uhhhhhh four, we used to ask the girls to the sock hop and then take her to the diner for a nice malt. And guess what, I never saw color so I always ordered chocolate! And if the girl didn't like that I would leave her there and by the way if china men I mean China doesn't own up to the coronavirus I mean if Donald China doesn't take some damn responsibility we're going to have some serious issues and I'm going to wait hold on hold on get her up her yeah yeah let me smell her hair, ok no no that's fine, ok so i would always order vanilla no sorry strawberry and if the girl ordered chocolate I knew she was a keeper, and that's why if a medicare for all bill came to my desk I would rip it in shreds

But tell us: it seems to me when I've seen interviews with her - not very many nor for long - that she seems a little odd and strange. To you also, or not? — tim wood

When she dropped to the floor and did a bunch of push-ups she won my heart! :cool:

Don't care for the other females in the mix.

Listen mack, lemme tell ya something, way back when there were only two genders and not uhhhhhh four, we used to ask the girls to the sock hop and then take her to the diner for a nice malt. And guess what, I never saw color so I always ordered chocolate! And if the girl didn't like that I would leave her there and by the way if china men I mean China doesn't own up to the coronavirus I mean if Donald China doesn't take some damn responsibility we're going to have some serious issues and I'm going to wait hold on hold on get her up her yeah yeah let me smell her hair, ok no no that's fine, ok so i would always order vanilla no sorry strawberry and if the girl ordered chocolate I knew she was a keeper, and that's why if a medicare for all bill came to my desk I would rip it in shreds — Maw

Which interview was this from?

/s

She's the type of person who will say one thing and do the complete opposite. I think she has integrity issues — Wolfman

That's the impression I got. In any case, I reckon Biden should go with Warren. I have my issues with her, but she's very sharp and might help balance his softness. And who can get enough of Trump saying 'Pocahontas'? It'd be a fun ride.



:lol:

Out the window goes the GOP line that Trump's more mentally competent than Biden. No matter how far Joe declines, he's never going to beat disinfectant-gate for stupidity. Expect this to be plastered over attack ads everywhere come Fall. Good news for Dems.

Glenn Greenwald is an international treasure.

The point about leverage is well made. The Dem establishment has given Anerican progressives a choice between self-castration and four more years of Trump. Essentially, cut your own balls off or we all eat shit. The best response to that is probably, "no, you eat shit and keep eating it until you realize you need us and give us what we want." Progressives/the left ought to organize and unite behind a third party.

Getting Obamacare back on track is a good start. We have to move forward together. A socialist-leaning president wouldn't be able to create a coalition.

Baden
9.8k
↪StreetlightX

The point about leverage is well made. The Dem establishment has given Anerican progressives a choice between self-castration and four more years of Trump. Essentially, cut your own balls off or we all eat shit. The best response to that is probably, "no, you eat shit and keep eating it until you realize you need us and give us what we want." Progressives/the left ought to organize and unite behind a third party. — Baden

I expect many Bernie fans will do that. Too bad, that. It approaches Trumpism (being absurd) more than I want to see any part of the left moving.

Re-think that idea, Baden.

frank
4.7k
↪Baden Getting Obamacare back on track is a good start. We have to move forward together. A socialist-leaning president wouldn't be able to create a coalition. — frank

Correct!

Pragmatism is still the most important commodity at this moment.

What's absurd to me is to expect the left to vote for a right-winger who doesn't support universal healthcare and on foreign policy leans more imperialist than Trump. Not only that, but who's fully integrated into a corrupt system where both parties compete for special-interest money.

If you ask yourself who Biden's major donors are, what their price for supporting him is, and how much that price gels with the left's priorities, you should realize there's virtually no overlap there. So with Biden, not only does the left not get what it wants (like with Trump), it's actively responsible for not getting what it wants. It's the difference between being punched in the face vs punching yourself in the face. In only one of those cases can some honor be salvaged.

@frank On socialism. From where I'm standing, it's not about socialism, except maybe to combat excessive corporate socialism. The left will never get anything like socialism in the US, though moderately social-democratic policies might be achievable. Fact is, even European conservatives are to the left of Joe Biden on, for example, healthcare. Far-right economics has been normalised in the US. And that's a global anomaly among major developed nations. So, it's more about the systemic corruption that explains that anomaly and makes your elections irrelevant except on culture-war issues. You're allowed to have Identity politics because special interests can make money from it. It's not a threat. You're not allowed to have a rational healthcare system or a fair tax system. You're allowed generous government welfare for corporations, but not for the average person. You're allowed to question American foreign policy, but not the military industrial complex as a whole. And on it goes.

Saying all this, I accept I'm an observer. There's a lot more at stake for you. I can stand back and smile wryly if it all misfires for American liberals / moderates. You have to deal with four more years of having your country run by a baboon. So fwiw my sentiments are firmly behind American progressives who've had enough and will be fighting both parties, and the two party system that spawned them, in November. However, I'm open to arguments from the other side as long as they address the issues I've raised. Just saying "pragmatism" doesn't cut it. I see your pragmatism and raise you principle.

I think you're in an alternate universe.

*Shrug* Insofar as you don't have any arguments, it doesn't matter what you think.

Baden
9.8k
↪Frank Apisa

What's absurd to me is to expect the left to vote for a right-winger who doesn't support universal healthcare and on foreign policy leans more imperialist than Trump. Not only that, but who's fully integrated into a corrupt system where both parties compete for special-interest money.

If you ask yourself who Biden's major donors are, what their price for supporting him is, and how much that price gels with the left's priorities, you should realize there's virtually no overlap there. So with Biden, not only does the left not get what it wants (like with Trump), it's actively responsible for not getting what it wants. It's the difference between being punched in the face vs punching yourself in the face. In only one of those cases can some honor be salvaged. — Baden

In 2016 that kind of thinking got us Trump. In 2020 that kind of thinking will get us four more years of Trump.

Do whatever you want. As for me...I would vote for Satan in order to be rid of Trump.

it doesn't matter what you think. — Baden

:up:

Sad neither of you can support your position. It's all just, other side bad. Read more maybe. I bet there are others who can give cogent arguments for what you're proposing.

Uh.. ok.

@180 Proof ?

I think you may be on the opposing side here and be ready to kick my ass. :razz:

Baden
9.8k
Sad neither of you can support your position. It's all just, other side bad. Read more maybe. I bet there are others who can give cogent arguments for what you're proposing. — Baden

My "position" is that Biden is head and shoulders a better choice than Trump as a leader...and as an advancement toward a more progressive society than Trump. And since the choice will be between Trump and Biden...my total support should be extended to him.

I am not sure what your "position" is...but if it is not "Let's have more of Trump"...you are on the wrong road.

I am not sure what your "position" is... — Frank Apisa

I just wrote four paragraphs on it. See above. One issue is that if you define yourself entirely negatively with regard to the opposing side, you don't put any pressure on your side to give you what you want. This plays into the hands of politicians who aren't actually interested in what you want because their focus is providing policies for their donors. That's what their political survival depends on, not you, who they rely on simply to fall in line as long as they find a reason to distinguish themselves from the opposition while not sacrificing their ability to please who really matters to them. Personality politics is one way to do this. So, I get you'll support Biden, but do you think I'm wrong on any of the above. And, if so, why?