"If Trump is re-elected, it's an indescribable disaster. It means that the policies of the last four years, which have been extremely destructive to the American population and the world, will be continued and probably accelerated. What this will mean for health is bad enough. What this means for the environment and the threat of nuclear war (which no one is talking about, but which is extremely serious) is indescribable.

Suppose Biden is elected. I would anticipate it would be essentially a continuation of Obama -- nothing very great, but at least not totally destructive, and with opportunities for an organized public to change what's being done and to impose pressures.

It's common to say now that the Sanders campaigned failed. I think that's a mistake. I think it was an extraordinary success. Completely shifted the arena of debate and discussion, issues that were unthinkable a couple of years ago are now right in the middle of attention. The worst crime he committed in the eyes of the establishment is not the policies he was proposing, it was the fact that he was able to inspire popular movements (which had already been developing --e.g., Occupy, Black Lives Matter, many others) and turned them into an activist movement which doesn't just show up every couple years to pull a lever and then go home, but applies constant pressure and constant activism.

That could effect a Biden administration. We've seen some striking examples. Take the Green New Deal. A couple of years ago that was an object of ridicule if it was mentioned at all. Now it's part of the general agenda. Why? Activist engagement. Especially the Sunrise Movement [...]

With a Biden presidency there would be if not a strongly sympathetic administration at least one that can be reached, can be pressured -- and that's very important. There's a very good labor historian, Erik Loomis, who's studied the efforts by working people to institute changes in the society...he's made an interesting point: these efforts have succeeded when there was a tolerant or sympathetic administration, not when there wasn't. That's a big -- one of many -- enormous differences between Trump, a sociopath, and Biden -- who's pretty empty, can push him one way or another.

This is the most crucial election in human history, literally. Another four years of Trump and we're in deep trouble."


The above is from Noam Chomsky.

But what does he (or Sanders) know anyway? Better to teach the DNC a lesson (they didn't learn the first time) through voting, thus winning on two fronts: (1) DNC doesn't change at all, and (2) taking out our frustrations by pushing a button without having to engage in that messy "activism" business -- as that is risky and takes sustained effort. The choice is obvious -- to hell with the world! Let is burn. At least our "point" will be made and we'll feel righteous. Because only suckers and sellouts like Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky will vote for Biden.

:roll:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htQKz-nB2Dg

Joe Biden's policies on the environment vs. Trumps:

The Biden Plan will:

Ensure the U.S. achieves a 100% clean energy economy and reaches net-zero emissions no later than 2050. On day one, Biden will sign a series of new executive orders with unprecedented reach that go well beyond the Obama-Biden Administration platform and put us on the right track. And, he will demand that Congress enacts legislation in the first year of his presidency that: 1) establishes an enforcement mechanism that includes milestone targets no later than the end of his first term in 2025, 2) makes a historic investment in clean energy and climate research and innovation, 3) incentivizes the rapid deployment of clean energy innovations across the economy, especially in communities most impacted by climate change.

Build a stronger, more resilient nation. On day one, Biden will make smart infrastructure investments to rebuild the nation and to ensure that our buildings, water, transportation, and energy infrastructure can withstand the impacts of climate change. Every dollar spent toward rebuilding our roads, bridges, buildings, the electric grid, and our water infrastructure will be used to prevent, reduce, and withstand a changing climate. As President, Biden will use the convening power of government to boost climate resilience efforts by developing regional climate resilience plans, in partnership with local universities and national labs, for local access to the most relevant science, data, information, tools, and training.

Rally the rest of the world to meet the threat of climate change. Climate change is a global challenge that requires decisive action from every country around the world. Joe Biden knows how to stand with America’s allies, stand up to adversaries, and level with any world leader about what must be done. He will not only recommit the United States to the Paris Agreement on climate change – he will go much further than that. He will lead an effort to get every major country to ramp up the ambition of their domestic climate targets. He will make sure those commitments are transparent and enforceable, and stop countries from cheating by using America’s economic leverage and power of example. He will fully integrate climate change into our foreign policy and national security strategies, as well as our approach to trade.

Stand up to the abuse of power by polluters who disproportionately harm communities of color and low-income communities. Vulnerable communities are disproportionately impacted by the climate emergency and pollution. The Biden Administration will take action against fossil fuel companies and other polluters who put profit over people and knowingly harm our environment and poison our communities’ air, land, and water, or conceal information regarding potential environmental and health risks. The Biden plan will ensure that communities across the country from Flint, Michigan to Harlan, Kentucky to the New Hampshire Seacoast have access to clean, safe drinking water. And he’ll make sure the development of solutions is an inclusive, community-driven process.
Fulfill our obligation to workers and communities who powered our industrial revolution and subsequent decades of economic growth. This is support they’ve earned for fueling our country’s industrial revolution and decades of economic growth. We’re not going to leave any workers or communities behind. —

Eh, sounds good but could be just a bunch of nice words.

Now Trump's climate change plan: "It's a Chinese hoax."

Trump's environmental record so far:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/


Just for anyone still wondering if there's a discernible "difference" between the two candidates.

I've changed my mind. "Organizing" and "activism" are stoopid. Better to be a political hobbyist.

But make sure you don't vote Biden, because doing so means you're a sell-out, or that you like the guy. It also won't teach the DNC a very important lesson!

Here's to another 4 years of Donald Trump! (Sure, our kids and grandkids won't have a planet that's habitable, but at least we will have proven a point -- one that requires no mental or physical effort or risk of any kind.)

Doesn't look like this was posted yet, but yesterday Business Insider reported on a former neighbor of Reade who corroborated her story. Reade had told the neighbor in the mid-90s about Biden's assault on her. At this point there is more corroborating evidence for Reade's story than there was Christine Blasey Ford.

Trump's environmental record so far:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/ — Xtrix

Thanks for the link. Oooh... Trump has done something for the environment! Ooooh...

President Donald Trump signed a bill that provides protections to over two million acres of lands across the United States. The massive package was well-received by environmental groups, hunting and angling groups, and lawmakers from both parties; before Trump signed, it had easily passed in both the House and the Senate.

The package touches nearly every state, designating 1.3 million new acres of wilderness lands across several western states; creating new national monuments in Mississippi and Kentucky; and protecting hundreds of miles of rivers under the Wild and Scenic Rivers program. In addition, the bill guarantees authorization for the popular Land and Water Conservation Fund, a program that uses revenues from offshore oil and gas drilling to fund public lands and conservation efforts nationwide.

Likely at start the proposal was 13 million acres, but still.

But it's OK because this rapist is OUR rapist.

[#####] has a point. DNC made a big mistake putting Biden up.

Why do you hold the DNC responsible for Biden's (assumed) nomination as opposed to the voters?

About the Tara Reade Charge:

Here is the charge:

Former aide, Tara Reade, who briefly worked as a staff assistant in Mr. Biden’s Senate office, told The New York Times that in 1993, Mr. Biden pinned her to a wall in a Senate building, reached under her clothing and penetrated her with his fingers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html


Let me say this without equivocation: “Pinning” a clothed woman to a wall and managing to “penetrate her” with your fingers…EVEN WITH THE WOMAN’S TOTAL COOPERATION…is one hell of a feat...goddam near impossible. Without her cooperation…I am saying it IS impossible without causing injury that would need immediate medical care...unless the woman is a porn star in the “fisting” section of porn sites and had just finished shooting a segment.

At best, one might be able to “cop a feel” of some pussy hair…but penetrate??? A person would need fingers coated in Vaseline to facilitate penetration of an unaroused, standing, clothed woman. Under those circumstances, the woman would have to be panting in arousal to be wet enough for the penetration to occur without further lubricant.

As I said…something gross and unwanted may have (probably) happened. Joe Biden may have made an unwanted move on the woman…and may have gotten way more “handsy” than any man should have. But the story as suggested leaves more questions in my mind than it furnishes answers about what that “something” was.

Either Ms. Reade was more willing than she acknowledges…or she has accidentally or purposefully embellished the story considerably.

“Pinning” a clothed woman to a wall and managing to “penetrate her” with your fingers…EVEN WITH THE WOMAN’S TOTAL COOPERATION…is one hell of a feat...goddam near impossible — Frank Apisa

Given it a go, have you?

This is a really sick post.

Let me say this without equivocation: “Pinning” a clothed woman to a wall and managing to “penetrate her” with your fingers…EVEN WITH THE WOMAN’S TOTAL COOPERATION…is one hell of a feat...goddam near impossible. Without her cooperation…I am saying it IS impossible without causing injury that would need immediate medical care...unless the woman is a porn star in the “fisting” section of porn sites and had just finished shooting a segment — Frank Apisa

Uh oh looks like someone's never gotten to third base

"Vote Dem. We hate women too!"

StreetlightX
5.1k
“Pinning” a clothed woman to a wall and managing to “penetrate her” with your fingers…EVEN WITH THE WOMAN’S TOTAL COOPERATION…is one hell of a feat...goddam near impossible
— Frank Apisa

Given it a go, have you? — StreetlightX

Yeah...with the woman's total cooperation. Ended up on the floor before we got hurt.

Anyone who disagrees with me on this has probably never tried it...WITH THE COOPERATION OF THE WOMAN.

Baden
9.9k
↪Frank Apisa

This is a really sick post. — Baden

Nothing sick about it.

Just something to be considered.

The story Tara Reade told may have a seed of truth...but there is no way he just penetrated her.

Maw
1.9k
Let me say this without equivocation: “Pinning” a clothed woman to a wall and managing to “penetrate her” with your fingers…EVEN WITH THE WOMAN’S TOTAL COOPERATION…is one hell of a feat...goddam near impossible. Without her cooperation…I am saying it IS impossible without causing injury that would need immediate medical care...unless the woman is a porn star in the “fisting” section of porn sites and had just finished shooting a segment
— Frank Apisa

Uh oh looks like someone's never gotten to third base — Maw

I had a period in my life after a divorce where I was promiscuous...banged any woman willing. I was a lucky guy...and there were MANY willing. I had no real bucks, but I WAS a bartender...and the bartender always has a shot at the leftovers. Yeah, some were skanks, but I've had my share of ultra-fine.

If you think you've gotten laid more than I...we can talk more. But you'd have to come up with some big numbers. Luckily, I found the right lady...and have been true blue for 35 years.

I've been reviewing legal definitions of rape online. It's not as completely simple as may seem it should be. And of course some of the details depend on the jurisdiction. It seems there are two main elements, both required. Penetration (of what by what varying), and lack of consent. Lack of consent is tricky. Lack of objection is not consent. On the other hand, consent need not be explicitly verbal. Assuming the charge is accurately stated above,

pinned her to a wall in a Senate building, reached under her clothing and penetrated her

that's a description of a physical act, and is silent on consent. Here's Wiki on it: 'Consent is affirmative "informed approval, indicating a freely given agreement" to sexual activity.[24] It is not necessarily expressed verbally, and may instead be overtly implied from actions, but the absence of objection does not constitute consent.' It doesn't take a law degree or even being a TPF amateur philosopher to see how there could be problems with the idea of consent, and that the details matter. Further (imo) if she consented in the moment but rued thereafter, then not rape.

In sum, the legal charge of rape can be made but sometimes the truth not-so-simple.

Now that Frank has morphed into Trump, maybe he'll change his vote?

May I, Baden, be a Baden and invite us all not to go there?

No, he's the mirror image of the guy he claims we'd have to be Nazis to support and you're playing the apologist because it's your guy and not a Republican.

Without a consistent line neither of you have any credibility.

tim wood
4.2k
↪Frank Apisa I've been reviewing legal definitions of rape online. It's not as completely simple as may seem it should be. And of course some of the details depend on the jurisdiction. It seems there are two main elements, both required. Penetration (of what by what varying), and lack of consent. Lack of consent is tricky. Lack of objection is not consent. On the other hand, consent need not be explicitly verbal. Assuming the charge is accurately stated above,
pinned her to a wall in a Senate building, reached under her clothing and penetrated her
that's a description of a physical act, and is silent on consent. Here's Wiki on it: 'Consent is affirmative "informed approval, indicating a freely given agreement" to sexual activity.[24] It is not necessarily expressed verbally, and may instead be overtly implied from actions, but the absence of objection does not constitute consent.' It doesn't take a law degree or even being a TPF amateur philosopher to see how there could be problems with the idea of consent, and that the details matter. Further (imo) if she consented in the moment but rued thereafter, then not rape.

In sum, the legal charge of rape can be made but sometimes the truth not-so-simple. — tim wood

Good material.

One thing I noted: "Lack of objection is not consent. "

Precisely.

When I was in my rampage days, I made a deal with myself...and pretty much kept to it diligently.

The was the deal: Only do the deed if the woman says "YES"...and anything less than a specific YES...is to be considered a NO.

There are some women who want to be "dominated" before they "give it up"...and require that the guy "assert" himself.

I think those women are kidding themselves...and I avoided them like the plague. There are plenty who are willing to engage...and give specific consent.

Lack of objection IS NOT CONSENT.

Baden
9.9k
Now that Frank has morphed into Trump, maybe he'll change his vote? — Baden

I have not morphed into Trump...and although I previously thought you were a decent, intelligent poster with whom I mostly agreed, I see I was wrong.

You are trolling me...and you are showing yourself to be a small, petty person.

Good luck living that kind of life; I'd sooner be dead.

Baden
9.9k
↪tim wood

No, he's the mirror image of the guy he claims we'd have to be Nazis to support and you're playing the apologist because it's your guy and not a Republican.

Without a consistent line neither of you have any credibility. — Baden

Projection...on a cosmic scale.

In terms of how you talk about women, you have, I'm afraid.

I had a period in my life after a divorce where I was promiscuous...banged any woman willing. I was a lucky guy...and there were MANY willing. I had no real bucks, but I WAS a bartender...and the bartender always has a shot at the leftovers. Yeah, some were skanks, but I've had my share of ultra-fine.

If you think you've gotten laid more than I...we can talk more. But you'd have to come up with some big numbers — Frank Apisa

No, he's the mirror image of the guy he claims we'd have to be Nazis to support and you're playing the apologist because it's your guy and not a Republican.
Without a consistent line neither of you have any credibility. — Baden

You do realize you've crossed into incoherence here, yes?

But at the same time, will you acknowledge that the reality is that in November the US will vote, and presumably either Biden or Trump will be elected?

As to mirror images, our friend in NJ tells us he insisted on explicit consent. How is that a mirror image of Trump and the behaviour he claimed for himself? That's not a rhetorical question.

You said Kavanaugh was, and I quote, "scum" because he, in your opinion, lied about what happened with his accuser. Biden has said these accusations are false. If they are true, you agree he is also "scum"?

Baden
9.9k
↪Frank Apisa

In terms of how you talk about women, you have, I'm afraid. — Baden

I have nothing but the greatest of respect for women...and have not said anything a sane person would consider dishonorable to them.

Yeah...I've bedded many...and they and I have mutual respect. I've not "taken advantage" of young women or women who consider a romp to be immoral...and your bullshit is just that.

Baden
9.9k
I had a period in my life after a divorce where I was promiscuous...banged any woman willing. I was a lucky guy...and there were MANY willing. I had no real bucks, but I WAS a bartender...and the bartender always has a shot at the leftovers. Yeah, some were skanks, but I've had my share of ultra-fine.

If you think you've gotten laid more than I...we can talk more. But you'd have to come up with some big numbers
— Frank Apisa — Baden

Yes, I imagine for someone who has lived a humdrum life and gotten laid infrequently, that may seem to be "talking badly about women."

It is not...and the women with whom I've romped would laugh in your face for considering it to be so.

I have nothing but the greatest of respect for women.. — Frank Apisa

Nobody respects women more than me. — Trump

I've been referring to the way you talk about women, nothing else. In that respect, you two are twins even in your excuses.