The mechanical brain does not secrete thought "as the liver does bile," as the earlier materialists claimed, nor does it put it out in the form of energy, as the muscle puts out its activity. Information is information, not matter or energy. No materialism which does not admit this can survive at the present day. — Computing Machines and the Nervous System. p. 132.
Thanks for this, I think this touches on something I had been considering that had been bothering me but my head had been fuzzing around.But this perspective misses an important "fundamental", and that is the cause of these fundamental things existing in these specific relations. Metaphysician Undercover
I very much agree. :up:Information is ... deviation from equiprobability (noise). In that sense it can never really be a 'simple', insofar as it is premised on that-which-is-or-is-not-equiprobable (leaving aside the thorny question of how to individuate a 'that-which'...). It is, however, substrate-neutral ... — StreetlightX
Yes. And I've always interpreted the combinatorial aspect of 'Swirling & Swerving-Atoms-In/(Of?)-Void' as information, or the 'physical measure' of the information content – system-states – of whatever (i.e. X comes-to-be, or X continues-to-be, or X ceases-to-be) happens.All there is, said Democritus, are atoms and the void. Atoms are eternal, imperishable, and indivisible. But at the same time, by their being able to combine in countless ways, and by virtue of their variety, they can account for all the manifold phenomena in the world of appearance. The idea of the atom solved the problem of 'the many and the one', by granting to 'the many' the attributes of indivisibility, eternity and imperishability previously accorded to the One. This was the genius of atomism ... — Wayfarer
All there is, said Democritus, are atoms and the void. Atoms are eternal, imperishable, and indivisible. But at the same time, by their being able to combine in countless ways, and by virtue of their variety, they can account for all the manifold phenomena in the world of appearance. The idea of the atom solved the problem of 'the many and the one', by granting to 'the many' the attributes of indivisibility, eternity and imperishability previously accorded to the One. This was the genius of atomism ... — Wayfarer
Edit: I suppose one could accede to a kind of Platonism of information where there 'is' information (disembodied, ethereal) which gets instantiated/emboided in particular bio/physical arrangements, but that would be -likeallPlatonismmaterialism - to put the cart before the horse. — StreetlightX
They are also showing how information is a part of both without needing to add it as an additional thing — Razorback kitten
if you had equal amounts of matter and anti-matter at the birth of the universe, it would have all fizzled out: — StreetlightX
But the point is, information can’t be reduced to energy and matter, although I suspect that will be over your head. Otherwise, why would Norbert Wiener have made the point in the first place? — Wayfarer
That’s because both matter and energy can be reduced to information. Information can manifest as matter or as energy, but it can also be neither. — Possibility
Information increases as order decreases. — unenlightened
there is order, the information can be compressed, and the more order there is, the more it can be compressed. — unenlightened
This is completely subjective, because what constitutes "information" is dependent on the defining terms. If the arrangement is set up with the intent to deceive, then what you are reading as "information" is really disinformation. And the whole concept of "information", under this precept becomes completely unsupported because of the possibility that you are wrongly interpreting what is there. — Metaphysician Undercover
You are informing me of something, but you are wrong. What you offer as information is disinformation. But being wrong does not change the number of words you have written, any more than calling what I have written 'subjective' changes the information I have given. — unenlightened
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