If I saw people around me telling me that their wages and costs of living are getting better, then I'd say that you might have a point ...but they are not and you don't.

There is an inclination on the liberal left to trust the output of large organisations and governments rather than just look around themselves...that probably explains why they want more politicians and bureaucrats in their lives.

You're getting a bit pervy now...are you on the shant already?

You only make unsubstantiated claims about things you apparently think are true. Educate yourself. You can start with this : Factfulness

You're wrong about wordwide population growth and you're wrong about mass immigration somehow leading to... What exactly? The extrapolation of past population growth you attempted is wrong and the effects of mass immigration grossly exaggerated.

Unless your next reply contains substantiated projections on population growth and mass immigration for the Netherlands I think we can safely conclude you shouldn't be having an opinion on the matter one way or the other.

If I saw people around me telling me that their wages and costs of living are getting better, then I'd say that you might have a point ...but they are not and you don't. — Chester

Ok!

Other than things you have not provided evidence for and have been disconfirmed, what makes you think this is due to immigration specifically, rather than living through a recession since 2008 that was never recovered from, and an even longer program of austerity (and privitisation) putting massive strain on all UK public services?

@Chester

If you expect the Tories to deliver you better wages and a lower cost of living, you are off your nut Georgey-boy. Yes, the EU is avowedly neoliberal, but there are some breaks there, whereas Boris's plan is to turn you into the U.S. The mass of the population will be looted for all they've got.

The world's population is projected to grow to nearly 11 billion by the end of this century...I guess to you that is good news, the more people the better.The growth in the dutch population of 7 million people since 1950 has been great, no costs involved.All is rosy in the Netherlands.

Taxi drivers must be having it off there lol.

And after 2100? What then?

The Netherlands is doing a lot better than in the 1950s. What's your point?

Let me put this in a language you won't dismiss as being middle class, now that we're swearing at each other based on UK nationality.

You gravy bathing fuckwits in the English working class got so duped you're holding up a bimbo in a wig who became a Tory because he hated British miners as a champion of the English working class.

You're getting a bit pervy now...are you on the shant already? — Chester

It's bevvies dear boy, short for beverages. Enough of this parade of working-class credentials already. We're gently mocking your sensibilities; there's no need for you to mock yourself.

@Chester's working-class hero:



He'll take care of you, son, long as you shine his top hat for him. You poor dupe. They used your ignorant xenophobic tendencies to get you to lick upper-class boots and you like the taste so much, you can't shut up about it.

The reality is that most immigrants from Europe have taken low paid jobs...so jobs like the ones I keep pointing out are less well paid (in real terms ) than they used to be. Many of these jobs are also subsidised by the state through such low paid workers getting tax credits, housing benefits etc. Everyone that I know and work with work with EU migrants, my neighbours are Romanian, I don't dislike these people but I can see that the EU is set up in such a way as to supply cheap labour and undercut wage costs for business and public sector employment .

The liberal left has no loyalty to its own nation , its own people, it considers such things vulgar. The trouble is that most people still have a preference for their own and can see what the EU has been attempting.

Took you a while to come up with that...booze is addling your brain mate.lol.

The liberal left has no loyalty to its own nation , its own people — Chester

Hear the rubbish they've got you spouting, so you won't notice when they turn you around and bend you over. But maybe you like that sort of thing, Luv?

It's funny you say that Boris will turn the UK into the US...but most immigrants in the world would rather go to the US than be smothered by the anti-democratic ,low economic growth zone known as the EU. Thank God we're out!

Are you being homophobic or just day dreaming?

Keep spraying, Chester.

I like JRM, great man , hopefully one day he'll be our prime minister so that whiners like you can cry yourselves to sleep every night dreaming of your socialist empire that will never materialise.

I like JRM, great man , hopefully one day he'll be our prime minister so that whiners like you can cry yourselves to sleep every night dreaming of your socialist empire that will never materialise. — Chester

Oh, I'm sure he'll throw you a few scraps. But I'm not from the UK, so I'll miss out. Damn...

But I'm not from the UK, so I'll miss out. Damn... — Baden

Not at all, he's moving his business to Ireland so he can stay in the EU.

You lucky, lucky people.

Oh, fair enough. Welcome to Ireland, Jacob.

I can't wait for when the Italians and Spanish ask their German best friends to bail them out! It's going to be hilarious!

You Irish are going to be in the shit too...that will be an even bigger laugh when your German masters tell you to bring your tax rates into line...brilliant.

Well, if we do go down, we'll go down with our eyes open and without blaming immigrants, who are responsible for much of our economic growth.

It's not "if" lol.

Looks like you paddies aren't all so keen on immigrants....

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-immigration-attitudes-3930048-Mar2018/

Ireland's GDP is 6 times larger since the instantiation of the EU in 1992, so no matter what happens, we're huge winners. Anyway, carry on. But your position is an English nationalist one. And that's all. You've provided no substance to the argument that you'll be economically better off, and particularly none to the argument that the working class would be better off under the Tory Brexit.

Seems most working class disagree with you , most of them voted Tory.

You Irish never learn...but Germany will teach you the hard way...comply or die. You are a dependent nation, you could never just leave the EU now. You're fucked.

GDP is also a really poor measure of well being ...unless you think America is heaven on Earth.

you could never just leave the EU now — Chester

Why would we do that? As I said, since 1992, our GDP has increased 6 times. Is that a bad thing in your topsy turvy world?

GDP is also a really poor measure of well being — Chester

Yes, there's also economic equality, minimum wage etc. All significantly better here than the UK and the US.