Panpsychism isn't neutral monism. Russell had in mind a third ingredient in addition to mind and matter.

There's nothing special about neutral monism which is why it's neutral and unknowable.

Panpsychism isn't neutral monism. Russell had in mind a third ingredient in addition to mind and matter.

There's nothing special about neutral monism which is why it's neutral and unknowable. — Zophie

I think they're similar. But my point is not to equate the two, But I never read about this "third ingredient" from Russell.

That's fine. My only problem with panpsychism is that it's virtually indistinguishable from animism.

Perhaps it would be best to assume we're all mindless zombies before we assume atoms have minds?

Another way of stating this is that the universe is inherently intelligent. This is an ancient idea that nous is everywhere in the world. Nous is mind or thought.

My only problem with panpsychism is that it's virtually indistinguishable from animism. — Zophie

Panpsychism is closer to the qbit. As Wheeler described it, no physical particle exists without information.

Whatever we call it, I think it is true that intelligence is as natural and fundamental to the universe as its physicality. — jacksonsprat22

Well, I gotta admit, I was sceptical. But with an argument like that, what more is there to say? I'm convinced.

before we assume atoms have minds? — Zophie

Right. I want to stay away from what having a mind is and simply describe it as the principle of intelligence.

Panpsychism is closer to the qbit. — jacksonsprat22

This is wonderful stuff. How could we not all have seen it before?

Well, I gotta admit, I was sceptical. But with an argument like that, what more is there to say? I'm convinced. — Banno

I find your childish insulting annoying. Do I need to report you to the moderators?

Oh. please do.

Already did.

It's because they let the Christians in, isn't it? New Age shite had to follow. SO now we will be philosophising about The blood of Jesus on the one hand and the consciousness of Baryons on the other.

Do you have an argument, @Jacksonsprat22?

Cool.

2. Varieties of Contemporary Panpsychism

2.1 The Definition of Panpsychism
The word “panpsychism” literally means that everything has a mind. However, in contemporary debates it is generally understood as the view that mentality is fundamental and ubiquitous in the natural world. Thus, in conjunction with the widely held assumption (which will be reconsidered below) that fundamental things exist only at the micro-level, panpsychism entails that at least some kinds of micro-level entities have mentality, and that instances of those kinds are found in all things throughout the material universe. So whilst the panpsychist holds that mentality is distributed throughout the natural world—in the sense that all material objects have parts with mental properties—she needn’t hold that literally everything has a mind, e.g., she needn’t hold that a rock has mental properties (just that the rock’s fundamental parts do).

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/

Banno is right, you aren’t making an argument. Lets hear it.

Banno is a troll.

...mentality... — jacksonsprat22

?

That might be the issue.

As in, there's folk as think that philosophy is just making shit up. I don't understand their mentality.

Banno is a troll. — jacksonsprat22

Yep. So was Socrates.

Have you an argument, or are you just going to spend this thread telling us what panpsychism is?

Sorry. I was flippant about atoms having minds. But a mind is something which has mental states and mental contents, no? Where, or rather how, do we draw the line between the environment and ourselves?

I'm comfortable with sweeping this aside and assuming we're extremely weird biological computers who are somehow puzzled by our ability to do our job and who think we can compare ourselves to a non-self.

Sorry. I was flippant about atoms having minds. But a mind is something which has mental states and mental contents, no? Where, or rather how, do we draw the line between the environment and ourselves? — Zophie

Right. I wanted to shift the discussion from consciousness to intelligence. Consciousness is an aspect of intelligence.

Your opinion about Banno is noted. How about that argument you have yet to make? Why should I accept Panpsychism is true?

The place Panpsychism might have a point is embodied cognition.

(THis by way of helping @jacksonsprat22 towards an argument...)

Don't believe it. I have no patience for smart alecks.

You don’t believe in what? Who do you think is a smart aleck, me?
Im being sincere, I want to hear your argument. What is it?

Go back and read what I wrote. I stated my thesis. Go outside for a walk if you have excess nervous energy.

Go back and read what I wrote. I stated my thesis. Go outside for a walk if you have excess nervous energy. — jacksonsprat22

Jackson, you seem sincere so I want to help. What Banno and the others might be saying is that you have made a claim, but you are not providing reasoning for it. They want to understand your reasoning. They are doing it in a somewhat taunting manner, but they want you to explain your position that intelligence is a component of the universe. Why is this the case? Once you have made your argument, then it can be evaluated one way or the other.

What Banno — schopenhauer1

I reported Banno to moderators.

Ah. I see, youre a moron. No, you have no thesis and made no argument. You made two references, failed to connect them and then stated a conclusion with nothing to support it. Now you’re getting pissy with me, when its you who have failed on every level. I can forgive stupid, but not aggressive stupidity. Good day to you sir.

@jacksonsprat22

Here: Arguments for Panpsychism

Pick one.

Consciousness is an aspect of intelligence. — jacksonsprat22

Maybe not. Perhaps the other way around?

Wiki: Intelligence has been defined in many ways: the capacity for logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving. More generally, it can be described as the ability to perceive or infer information, and to retain it as knowledge to be applied towards adaptive behaviors within an environment or context.

For example, growing and adapting plants. :chin: