Well, even someone saying 'Is everything futile?' has its own self-refuting consequence, when it causes you to bring it to the debating table, doesn't it? — mcdoodle
So the question is not genuine.if everything actually is futile, ... then it would be futile to ask "is it all futile?" — intrapersona
You'd answer yes if you don't find anything useful and you don't believe that anything has a point.
You'd answer no otherwise.
So "No." — Terrapin Station
Futile relative to what?
Suppose I decide to pursue one of two goals.
To spin gold from straw
Or
To get a glass of water from the tap
Obviously one of these goals is less futile than the other. — m-theory
Was this a serious proposal ("Everything is futile.") or more along the lines of sarcasm ("Life is like a sewer; what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.")?
The author of Ecclesiastes thought everything was pretty much futile, and he was being quite serious, as far as I can tell. — Bitter Crank
I think it's helpful to recognize that whether you think life is "futile" or not, any response to the question is fundamentally a belief. Whether you come to a conclusion through a series of propositions, or through an experience, an emotional response, or whatever it is, we never apprehend a full knowledge of whether life has purpose. We momentarily forget the exact propositions, the experience fades, the emotions go back and forth, etc. Belief is the gap between the idea and our consciousness. I think it's good to recognize this in the climate of thought we live in, at least in the West. — Noble Dust
That is not my issue though, just because some people find no teleological purpose that justifies their own existence, this does not mean that it is futile for me to form and realize my own goals for my own existence.
I don't feel any obligation to justify my own existence, or human existence, or the entirety of all existence.
At least not to anyone but myself.
Just because I don't justify these things to you does not mean I lead a futile life, for it is not for you to judge my life's futility or fruitfulness for me.
Perhaps your's is a fate of futility, but I am content that mine is not. — m-theory
This isn't about justifying and individual life to others... It is about finding out whether ALL of human life is completely pointless. — intrapersona
If an individual says "my life has value", how are we to know that is true? Just because it is true to him? I am talking about collective value, not the subjective valuation of ones own existence. — intrapersona
So if I said to you that I don't need to prove to you that I am a pink fairy that looks like a unicorn ... — intrapersona
if everything actually is futile, ... then it would be futile to ask "is it all futile?"
— intrapersona
So the question is not genuine. — jkop
You'd answer yes if you think God exists — intrapersona
The pink fairy needs to attend to this point. If everything is futile, then discussing futility is... futile. — Bitter Crank
To the question of? (Whether God exists?)
I'm giving the definition of "futile." What is "God exists" (or "God") the definition of? — Terrapin Station
Again relative to what?
Am I to imagine some cosmic being that judges the value of all of human life?
Do I take a consensus of the living and ask them to decide if humanity is worthy pursuit? — m-theory
Isn't "if everything is futile, discussing how futile everything is... is futile" a tautology?
If you say "all men are liars" why should I believe you? — Bitter Crank
When you say "so no" are you saying from your perspective or absolutely, that is completely unclear... did you fail to see that? — intrapersona
Yes. I failed to see that you were saying that that was unclear to you.
I'm saying from my perspective, and in my view this is necessarily from individuals' perspectives.
I did things useful. I feel there are points to various things. — Terrapin Station
And maybe you're 13? — Terrapin Station
So when someone says to me "everything is futile really isn't it?" I am meant to say "futile to whom?" because no one can speak for anyone else. — intrapersona
Seems valid but when you think of it, we haven't actually proved that it all is actually NOT futile. All we have said is that saying it is all futile is not a valid claim because worth is determined subjectively be each individual. And who is to say one person's valuation of existent things are worthless in totality wouldn't be justified. — intrapersona
So we are all just sniffing our butts thinking "this smells lovely" and no one can prove otherwise. Because the moment someone tries to tell you that your butt stinks then you get a hoard of replies saying — intrapersona
No — intrapersona
Why should I care subjectively?
And what does mean if it is an objective fact that I don't care that everything is futile because I am content? — m-theory
I'd probably be more likely to buy a bridge from you at this point than to believe that denial. — Terrapin Station
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