Well first of you are not the same from day to day, it is only memories and experiences that give you any sense of continuity (self). You are continuously "becoming" like everyone and everything else.
Second of, the assumption that the rest of the universe lacks any form of sentience is just that an assumption (see any thread on panpsychism, perception or sentience).

I didnt assume the universe isnt sentient I said I struggle to grapple with sentience in a universe.... which appears when one observes it to be but rocks floating around. I didnt qualigy whether said rock's were sentient or not it was open ended and clearly an option within the poll "consciousness is fundamental to the universe" was one option.

Secondly I already highlighted my awareness of not being the same from day to day. Your reasoning that my memories and experiences are the only things that provide a sense of self is also just an assumption. That would mean someone with severe alzheimers or dementia doesnt have a sense of self or a conscious awareness because their memories or experiences are muddled up or disintegrating yet they still interpret the world around them. Perhaps awareness is more intrinsic then merely experience. Does a rock have a memory? Or experience? The poll is just for fun I cant provide an option for everyones view.

I feel like consciousness depends on a few things. I believe for consciousness to arrive in a being, there have to be many biological factors met to be able to function consciously. With saying this i also have come to think that there are multiple levels of consciousness depending on the mental capacity of the subjects biological body. A subject that channels consciousness, born from no perceivable consciousness, so where does the conscious come from? I believe that before the things that could channel consciousness, evolved Ex(single cell organisms and onward), the universe and everything that inhabits it was propelled by the energy flow of consciousness, leading to the inevitability of producing something to channel it through. When the big bang put our universe into motion, There was conflict. From this conflict arose more conflict, every instance of it not by chance, because there was no perceivable consciousness to intervene in physics becoming. This is a way for conscious to develop and build a mode of being for itself to take part in its creation to find itself.

Also, the Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.

Rocks.

After 8 years or so from today not a single atom in my body will still be there. I will be materially new yet the exact same person. How is this? — Benj96

Consciousness seems to be immaterial? I have heard quantum phenomena described as immaterial.

I didn’t assume the universe isn’t sentient I said I struggle to grapple with sentience in a universe.... which appears when one observes it to be but rocks floating around. I didn’t qualify whether said rocks were sentient or not it was open ended and clearly an option within the poll. — Benj96

Nothing personal. I do not like polls, I do not think they are reflective of peoples true views as wording of questions and responses (and the limitations thereof) hinder rather than elicit conversation.

“Where do you think consciousness is held” was the question? I had trouble knowing where to start. I think forms of mind (of which consciousness is one) are ubiquitous in nature but object to calling “rocks conscious”. Maybe you could say what you think consciousness is? And where it is found?

Human mind and Human consciousness are associated with human brains. Hive minds may be associated with colonies of bees and ants. Flowers may (to me) experience (in a non-conscious manner) sunlight.

"consciousness is fundamental to the universe" was one option- actually was not listed in that form and even then I could not have chosen it as reflective of my view.

Your reasoning that my memories and experiences are the only things that provide a sense of self is also just an assumption. That would mean someone with severe Alzheimer’s or dementia doesn’t have a sense of self or a conscious awareness because their memories or experiences are muddled up or disintegrating yet they still interpret the world around them. — Benj96

I wonder about that. If a person no longer knows their name, remembers their family and friends, has forgotten their life experiences are they still “Uncle Joe”? I guess it depends on how you define “self” and “I”. I think mind comes in various degrees and various forms but the fundamental ontology is the question. If one is seriously demented one probably is aware in the “now” (like many creatures are) could be said to be “conscious” but I think a “sense of self” (open to definition) requires continuity of memory. I don’t mean to be argumentative. I could preface everything with IMHO. I am just providing thoughts.

I use the term “mind in nature” or “panexperientialism” (forms of panpsychism) and do not equate the terms awareness, experience, consciousness and memory (various forms of mentality, psyche).


1. Its coded into DNA and assembled/primed to run in utero – I think “mind” is more fundamental than DNA.
2. Its a quality of energy - the capacity to observe itself - I like the phrase that consciousness is the universe becoming aware of itself but it does not help regarded the metaphysics or ontology of mind itself.
3. It's a quality of matter - capacity to gather and store information- any structure contains information, I don’t think that alone helps us (but feel free to elaborate).
4. Its both a quality of energy and matter - fundamental to the universe. Like an ethereal soup- I think we pretty much can confirm the presence of energy, matter and mind, it is their relationship that is in question.
5. It is a byproduct of hierarchical organisation of systems. An emergent phenomenon - Consciousness I would say is an “emergent” (not in ontological sense) property of certain complex systems. Only in the same sense that different arrangements of matter give rise to different physical properties as well.
6. Consciousness doesnt actually exist it's an illusion- That would be “eliminative materialism” and seems to me to deny the very principle of the “inquiring mind”.
7. Mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell.- Yes that is true but I fail to see the connection (you could elucidate for me).


Frankly, I am just confined to home for the pandemic and engaging to pass the time. It does inspire me to pursue lines of inquiry and use language to verbalize thoughts, I am not a true philosopher being mainly superficially familiar with only a few topics, have little ego invested, and I am relatively immune to negative responses. (I just stop engaging).

This - It is a byproduct of hierarchical organisation of systems. An emergent phenomenon

Except more neutrally put:

An embedded phenomenon which is a function of the evolution of complex natural systems

I don't see what the big deal about rocks being conscious is. They are a cohesive whole which must distinguish itself from everything else. Of course rocks are aware.

5 is a gateway drug leading to 4.

(Emergent) "property" and "phenomenon"... too suggestive of a substance/goo/woo.

(Emergent) "aspect"?

Consciousness isn't held, it is what holds.

Where does consciousness reside? — Benj96

in the balls

Next to non-consciousness.

well I feel bad for women then

Consciousness is not a physical thing like blood or oxygen, we know where those are held. It is an actualization of things that are physical and metaphysical including senses, memories, and concepts such as time. It is performed by the brain, where memories are kept, simaltaneously and automatically to constitute self awareness. A basic form of this can be observed in animals.

The mind is aware by itself. The body, which is an imitation of a mind, has five senses to imitate the mind's consciousness in a physical context.

Here's a tale: My sister and I had to travel through a graveyard to get to school when I was in third grade, and she had just entered school. I told her that ghosts might appear. Sis told me that it had made her afraid. The lesson is that her awareness, her situational awareness was instantaneous in nature out to about 20 feet of her mass. So our consciousness is what our brain does. It's interactive with our environment. We, as paracites on the brain, only 15 percent of it's activity. It allows us, and is in command of our consciousness, whether it allows it to exist or not. Further, our brains are naturally biogenic. That is, they behave as super-microorganisms that respect the biological imperatives of survival, and ... our laws should probably recognize the same.

Consciousness is not a thing with point coordinates in space. Consciousness is a state of mind and body distributed among my nervous system, muscles and bones. It is composed of perceptions and actions that place my Ego in the world.
Consciousness is empty. It is intentional: that is, it is the consciousness of something. If you look for its content you will only find the world. Rather, its way of acting in the world. The consciousness of the consciousness says nothing. It's an absurdity because it would take us to infinity: consciousness of consciousness of consciousness of consciousness and so on.
Consciousness has been compared to the stage of a theatre. If the actors don't come in there's nothing.
Since the world doesn't have a nervous system, bones and muscles, it seems impossible to me that the world has any kind of consciousness. As far as elephants are concerned, it's a controversial issue.

Synonyms: being aware of. Antonyms: mechanical behaviour, subconscious, reflex.

Consciousness is not a physical thing like blood or oxygen, we know where those are held. It is an actualization of things that are physical and metaphysical including senses, memories, and concepts such as time — Outlander

I agree with your first sentence.
But I don't understand the concept of actualization here. Neither does "metaphysical". In what sense is consciousness metaphysical? I see it as being closely linked to the physical conditions I have just specified: the nervous system, bones, muscles and action. (Bones and muscles are a way of simplifying the reference to the body).

The mind is aware by itself. The body, which is an imitation of a mind, — EnPassant

An imitation? I'd say the mind is the body in action. Without my eyes, my fingers and my kidney, consciousness would be nothing and the mind would have nothing to do. Do you know what happens to the mind in a process of sensory deprivation? It goes crazy.

We have a tool to measure the intelligence of a person which is called the IQ. Depending on a series of IQ test they can determine your level of intelligence. Most humans have around 100 IQ. The geniuses like Albert Einstein had 160 IQ. Most geniuses possess from 130 to 160 IQ. Yet, we have nothing to evaluate the consciousness. We rarely hear about the consciousness. You can be extremely intelligent, even a genius but still have a very low level of consciousness like the scientists who created the atom bomb.

We use our most brilliant minds to create weapons of mass destruction and in doing so we respond to an instinctive demand to always be the strongest.

Consciousness tells us that humans are an extremely intelligent species but still are not aware that they are much more instinctive than intelligent. This is a recipe for an eventual catastrophe scenario. Humans now posess the power of a God to destroy all living things on this planet by using 50 nuclear bombs. Only 50 nuclear bombs are needed to destroy every bit of life on this planet. Radiation poisoning would kill you eventually. But who wants to be conscious of that?

Do you know what happens to the mind in a process of sensory deprivation? It goes crazy. — David Mo

Because it is locked onto the body and is deprived of sensation. If the body dies the mind can escape the prison and return to its original state of non corporeal awareness.

Where does consciousness reside? — Benj96

Suppose I ask you where my marriage resides? Is it in the certificate, or the ceremony, in me, in my wife, in both of us, is it emergent, is it imaginary?

Don't answer, don't vote. It's a wrong question. Your question is also a wrong question. It makes sense to ask where things are, or where they reside. My keys reside in my pocket, and I bring them out when I need to use them. Consciousness and marriage are not things.

Consciousness and marriage are not things. — unenlightened

What are they?

What are they? — Professor Death

No, they are not what.

What are keys? Yes. Keys are shaped metal devices for opening locks.

Here's a simple example:

Duck, duck, duck.

Three ducks in a row. Now we have a row of ducks, but what is a row? You can see it plain as day, but when you point to it, you are pointing to the ducks. Where is the row? What is the row?

The row, in platonic terms, is the form instantiated by the particular relationship of, in this case, 3 ducks. And thence, by answering the innocuous seeming question, we have 2000 years of confusion.

Ducks are things; a row is not a thing. What is a row? No, a row is not a what. there are three things up there, and they are all ducks. The ducks are in a row. Stop.

why are the ducks in a row?

I put them there.

I didn't have to. I could have put them like this:

Duck, duck
duck.

But I like to get my ducks in a row.

But I like to get my ducks in a row. — unenlightened

Sounds like consciousness comes from the I then

Sounds like consciousness comes from the I then — Professor Death

You know that's nonsense, don't you. Consciousness doesn't come from anywhere or go anywhere.

Deal with the row. I move the third duck from underneath to alongside and there is the row. It hasn't come from anything. I move it back to underneath, and there is no row; it hasn't gone anywhere. I could say that a row is an arrangement, or a relationship , but then you would start talking about arrangements and relationships as if they were things, and it would be the same confusion that Plato produced.

So consciousness is the relation of responsibility that the world has with itself. Happy now? But you will manage to make a confusion of it, by holding on to this definition as if it reifies consciousness.

Me, the world, and consciousness, or equivalently, me, my wife, and the marriage, or three ducks and a row - this is what you must not do.

That the Ducks are in a row is something you attribute to them.
Before there were people there were no rows, nor 1 2 3, nor Ducks!
Are these concepts not an expression of consciousness?

I agree with you. Consciousness is not a thing so much as a phenomena. A whole body , immaterial phenomena. However cellular microtubules sound promising as a possible location where the main action takes place – on an immaterial quantum level.