There are 'few other options' because America is a systemically shit place

there are 'few other options' for entry level worker because a) they don't have many skills or certifications and b) we're in the year of coronavirus which has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism.

but congratulations on putting more of this country's lower skilled, entry level, and vulnerable population out of work. who cares if they have one less source of income? that's their problem to deal with now - not yours or mine. you really stuck it to the man here. racial equality has been solved and the CEO of target now supports afro-socialism and dissolving the police force.

OK Bootlicker.

Go put more lower wage workers out of jobs by destroying their workplaces, they can always go loot another store. You're really standing up well for civilization here. Stickin' it to the man.

there are 'few other options' for entry level worker because a) they don't have many skills or certifications and b) we're in the year of coronavirus which has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism. — BitconnectCarlos

Y'know what? Worth addressing this - the poor in America don't have many skills or certifications - nothing to do with capitalism? Yeah make another joke. A year of COVID in which the ruling class have deemed it more important for service workers to be out there and die than wait a while and keep the shops closed for the sake of 'the economy' - thus ensuring its effects are prolonged and made worse? The most powerful nation of Earth having the worst response to it? - nothing to do with capitalism? Make another joke. Billionaire wealth soared during COVID, and you think the loss of a Target is the issue? Corporations looted more than $500 billion of the public purse while individuals got a $1200 check, and capitalism isn't the issue? Tell me another kneeslapper, comedian.

Billionare wealth soared during COVID, and you think the loss of a Target is the issue? Tell me another kneeslapper.

I never said it was THE issue, I'm saying it's AN issue.

But then again, it's not an issue for you or me. We haven't been put out of work because our workplace has been destroyed. We aren't responsible for feeding their child or paying their bills - that's their own problem to deal with. Maybe in your race to revolutionize the system and destroy capitalism try not stepping on the necks of some of America's most vulnerable workers by making their situation even worse than it already is.

Stepping on necks? That's the metaphor you're going to use here against those who support protests over a man who died by way of having his neck stepped on? Really? Fucking really? Fuck you.

No, that's the metaphor I'm going to use to towards who are burning down stores and assaulting business owners who try to defend their stores. The protests themselves are fine and warranted.

@StreetlightX Calm down

Thing is, what does it take to get a racist murdering cop arrested?

And the answer is not overwhelming evidence, peaceful protest, reasoned argument, or any of the other wonderful things that the mayor and the governor have praised, such as 'obeying the curfew'. It takes a nationwide riot.

So well done to the rioters, without you, this would just have been another obvious miscarriage of justice that decent people shook their heads at and then forgot to do anything about. There's nothing like a riot for getting things done. Don't calm down.

What would really get results is hitting big corporate donors, so they might buy some better politicians. In what way is another question. Anyway, yes, playing nice with folks who are stepping on your face (or neck) isn't going to get you anywhere.

Yeah, keep punching up. The CEO of Target and the board of directors will really get the message now. Meanwhile, you've got all the (presumably lower or lower middle class) entry-level target workers out of a job and the people of the community have one less place to shop and will likely need to travel further now and possibly pay more elsewhere. But we showed the rich! — BitconnectCarlos

Oh no people won't be able to shop why won't these protesters think of the consumer??? :groan: :cry:

The question "why there's racism in the USA (or anywhere else for that matter)?" is like asking a cannibal why he eats chicken?

You can focus on the 'systemic' part if you like. There is no other country in the developed world, for example, where a minority are routinely brutalised and murdered by police and where it is so hard to bring the perpetrators to justice. Why? And what to do about it? What is a justified response?

"Tulsa 1921" (99 years ago today in fact) is a "riot". What's happening now is an uprising, or rebellion - not "riots" (except for 'infiltration by agent provocateurs' like undercover cops & alt-rightwingers). It's the difference between domestic terrorism and resistance to domestic terrorism.

Imagine seeing how militarized the police are, rolling tanks and wielding riot shields and guns as if they were an occupying force in a foreign country, seeing their unprovoked violent reaction towards protesters , running people down with vehicles, macing indiscriminately including elected officials, shoving people into the curb and landing people in the hospital....and all your consternation is directed towards a store owned by a multibillion dollar company. Capitalism is a helluva drug.

....and all your consternation is directed towards a store owned by a multibillion dollar company. Capitalism is a helluva drug. — Maw

:up: :shade:

I quoted Natasha Lennard in my socialism thread, but I'm rereading her essay "Riots For Black Life", published last year, and it says everything I want to say, but better:

"Rioting is not senseless destruction; on the contrary, it is often (even without explicit intention) a deeply political challenge to property and white supremacy —two concepts intractably entwined in this former slaveholder republic. Only when rendered in the language of capital are the acts of smashing chain store and cop car windows sufficient to see a protest deemed “violent”; but this is the media lingua franca. ...If the public has more concern for the well-being of people than of property, as I hope they do, consternation about looting should pale in comparison to anger at police violence. Both liberals and conservatives decry looting as opportunistic, but I’m not sure opportunism is always such a bad thing, especially for individuals and communities for whom opportunity rarely comes knocking.

To tell a furious community that their riotous actions are counterproductive patronizes the very groups who know too well that “acceptable channels” of political engagement have failed, again and again, to deliver dignity and justice to black life. Further, it ignores, as Osterweil notes, that major riots (and the threat of more) during the civil rights era helped force JFK’s hand in calling for historic legislation: “To argue that the movement achieved what it did in spite of rather than as a result of the mixture of not-nonviolent and nonviolent action is spurious at best.”

There is no other country in the developed world where a minority are routinely brutalised and murdered by police and where it is so hard to bring the perpetrators to justice — Baden

I see. The phrase "systemic racism" has conspiracy theory written all over it. Can you imagine the level of intrigue necessary for such to be true?

I see. The phrase "systemic racism" has conspiracy theory written all over it. Can you imagine the level of intrigue necessary for such to be true? — TheMadFool

Ah, no, I can imagine the level of intrigue necessary for imagining it's not true in the US today though. It simply means institutional racism, such as the police force treating black people and other minorities less favourably than white people. That's undeniable.

:up: Just downloaded Violence: Humans in Dark Times by Lennard and Brad Evans.

uprising, or rebellion — 180 Proof

I certainly hope so. Indeed I hope for a revolution. But I don't have enough breath to hold at the moment for pandemic reasons.

"Rioting is not senseless destruction; on the contrary, it is often (even without explicit intention) a deeply political challenge to property and white supremacy —two concepts intractably entwined in this former slaveholder republic. Only when rendered in the language of capital are the acts of smashing chain store and cop car windows sufficient to see a protest deemed “violent”; but this is the media lingua franca... — StreetlightX

You can argue that for a Target, but those aren't the only buildings being looted and burnt. It's harder to make that case for locally owned. I think it's better to ask the people who have to live with the aftermath whether they think it's an effective strategy.

Burning precincts and cop cars should be enough to get everyone's attention. No need to destroy the rest of the community.

But I don't have enough breath to hold at the moment for pandemic reasons. — unenlightened

This is incredible dark humor :sweat:

I guess then it's time to ask the million dollar question: Is there any race that's not racist?

Ha, tell me how it is. I only read her Being Numerous, which I thought was awesome.

If you want to treat police like they're all monsters I could just take the other side and treat the protesters like they're all murdering business owners, looting stores, and assaulting police officers and civilians. They've got assaults on camera.... if you want to play it that way we can play it that way.

Why not just make it simple and condemn police brutality while also condemning lawless rioting?

Burning precincts and cop cars should be enough to get everyone's attention. No need to destroy the rest of the community. — Marchesk

You don't get to decide what is and is not enough from your high chair.

I could just take the other side and treat the protesters like they're all murdering business owners, looting stores, and assaulting police officers and civilians. — BitconnectCarlos

You could, but then you'd be an complete fucking idiot.

Why not just make it simple and condemn police brutality while also condemning lawless rioting? — BitconnectCarlos

Because they want a socialist revolution.

You don't get to decide what is and is not enough from your high chair. — StreetlightX

You don't live there, so you don't get to decide either.