What is more oppressive: a mental prison or a physical one?

Outlander

A physical prison is quite formidable. An impenetrable, inescapable fortress staffed with heavily armed guards who can and would kill any chance of early escape. But is a mental prison much different? The walls are your beliefs and the armed guards are your stubbornness to accept you may be incorrect and have your core beliefs challenged.

In a physical prison, the bars may be cut, you may be able to sneak out in a laundry truck or during a riot. Or simply wait until your sentence is up. A prison of mind however, is an eternal one.

You could be the most privileged person on Earth, effectively its king. No place or opportunity that is not generously provided for you in excess. However if you succumb to a mental prison of your own design first, you will miss every opportunity provided for you, degenerate, and perhaps even end up in both.

Now I am a religious person, I heard it all. It's exactly that... yeah yeah whatever. Let's focus on the concept itself for this discussion.

So. What do you guys think?

Pfhorrest

Physics freedom is useless to within mental freedom, and harmless with enormous of it (e.g. Stoic or Buddhist temperament).

DingoJones

↪Outlander

Why would a mental prison be eternal? Why isnt there mental escape routes like with a physical prison? (Therapy, self reflection, enlightenment etc)
Also, a mental prison isnt going to deny you EVERY opportunity. Thats pretty dramatic. You will likely miss some.
You just asserted those things, without any support for the claim.
Also, what does religion have to do with it and why did you feel the need to preemptively get weirdly defensive about it? Is this a spin off from another discussion?

Brett

↪Outlander

I think a mental prison is very formidable. You could even consider social mores as a mental prison. To break out of a mental prison you need outside help. Where and how do you begin to find it? If the mental prison is strong enough you’ll end up viewing the world with suspicion, Hiow do you overcome that, who do you trust?

Edit: isn’t it possible the mental prison creates the physical prison?

Outlander

↪DingoJones

It can be is what I meant. Perhaps there are. But yeah the metaphorical guards I mentioned.

No not every opportunity. But perhaps more than you'd like.

Yeah perhaps you're right. It (faith) is often viewed as the antithesis of reason and whatnot and so would easily "fit the bill". It was kind of random I agree. I enjoy a few beers while I peruse the internet. Suppose I just wanted to assert that was not what I was alluding to. It could've easily seemed like it imo. Times are tough. Faith without evidence takes strength. Not one to knowingly or unknowingly weaken that.

Josh Lee

↪Outlander

I would say mental. Break a man’s leg and he will stand in a few months, break his mind and he will never stand again. Probably butchered a similar quote.

This may be a bad example but the Stamford Prison Experiment is worth considering in this case. The implications we can draw from it is amazing as I would not consider it somewhat like a mental prison for both the guards and prisoners as both were trapped in their roles, resulting in their mental beliefs changing. Maybe this example could help advance the discussion further. Cheers :)

DingoJones

Yeah perhaps you're right. It (faith) is often viewed as the antithesis of reason and whatnot and so would easily "fit the bill". It was kind of random I agree. I enjoy a few beers while I peruse the internet. Suppose I just wanted to assert that was not what I was alluding to. It could've easily seemed like it imo. Times are tough. Faith without evidence takes strength. Not one to knowingly or unknowingly weaken that. — Outlander

Well we can talk about faith if you want, but you said you’ve heard it all so...

Echarmion

This may be a bad example but the Stamford Prison Experiment is worth considering in this case. The implications we can draw from it is amazing as I would not consider it somewhat like a mental prison for both the guards and prisoners as both were trapped in their roles, resulting in their mental beliefs changing. Maybe this example could help advance the discussion further. — Josh Lee

Slightly off-topic, but the Stanford experiment is no longer considered scientific. The results haven't been replicated and there are concerns that the lead researcher influenced the participants, which were not a large sample size in the first place.

Josh Lee

↪Echarmion

Oh really? Didn’t know that its no longer considered scientific. I thought the results haven’t been replicated because of ethical concerns? Thanks for the clarification!

Heiko

Oh really? Didn’t know that its no longer considered scientific. I thought the results haven’t been replicated because of ethical concerns? Thanks for the clarification! — Josh Lee

I have to say I never quite got that experiment or the test subjects. How can a situation where you agree to spend some time in a fictional prison for money be the same as the real thing. How can someone be so stupid to make things difficult for everyone??? The experiment might show what people knowingly participating in those experiments might behave and not much more...
What would you expect? Nobody there has any reason to behave in a certain way _except_ if you told them to play cops and robbers. It is so pretty damn obvious that this "research" wanted some particular results it is not even funny anymore if you think about it.
The experiment is not unethical because some idiots headed for the MMMonsterkill, but because of

The implications we can draw from it is amazing — Josh Lee

this. "They" (paranoia or not) wanted you to draw conclusions. Think about it. There is tons of political issues connect to such "research".

Ugesh

Mental prison. You may be physically restrained but you can travel the universe with an out of body experience. This is what the sages do.

Pop

A physical prison, because then you are imprisoned both mentally and physically.

The Questioning Bookworm

↪Outlander

So. What do you guys think? — Outlander

Physical prison as it can lead to mental prison later in life or during a sentence. Moreover, it can make a person mentally worse off than they already were. From what I have read and heard, physical prisons can lead to trauma, violence, exposure to corruption, and mental instability. At least in a mental prison, you may be able to avoid some of these darker experiences.

tim wood

↪Outlander

The physical prison is out there, the mental one in here. Where do you prefer your monsters? A great fear of mine is to be imprisoned by stroke or similar. Some people (can) live in their minds; I not-so-much, I live out there, and being imprisoned in here I do not even like to think about.

Matei

There is this saying: "A man in chains is just as free as one without any.". More reflection is needed in order to say that I completely agree, but I can see its point. All the freedom comes form the soul, said Berdiaev and I must agree. Stupidity is the greatest slavery, the greatest inprisonment for that it doesn't even allow you the freedom to see your chains. Outlander, you said that a mental prison cannot be escaped, I would disagree, but I believe I see what you mean. A mental prison is just extremely hard to escape and you can't do it completely by yourself, you need either some sort of luck, like the right book to fall into your hands, or someone to guide you out of it. Why? Because being a fool is not a choice, if one chooses to be a fool than said one is already a fool, and therefore unfree.

What is more oppressive: a mental prison or a physical one?

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