How did he vote for Trump in 2016? No ad hom here. — Monitor
So you lived in the US and then moved to Canada? I was just always surprised at your level of interest in US politics. — Monitor
Is there a point there? — NOS4A2
The real success has been what Trump is trying to do in the US: division and polarization at such level that there's no turning back. — ssu
im accusing you of being a liar. — DingoJones
For decades that included the working man. Democrats largely abandoned those folks, so they found a new home. That's not Trump's fault, that's our fault. — Nuke
This is a good question. I'm not asking any Democrat to give up their principles. I'm suggesting we dial down the tribalism and show those with different views more respect. You know, the urban leftie mindset which thinks of rural citizens as country bumpkin bozo yahoos. Stuff like that has to go. — Nuke
I tried to offer some examples, and would encourage members to think of more. We don't have to agree with Trump's immigration policies to acknowledge that being concerned about immigration and population is a reasonable concern. Same for abortion. Same for guns. Same for religious freedom. What else? What am I missing? — Nuke
Then why did they lose the last election to a comic book character who boasts about assaulting women? Why were all the Democratic candidates in 2020 second rate figures who don't even know that a Presidential candidate should have something useful to say about nuclear weapons? Why did Bernie and Warren not grasp that "all angry all the time" is a recipe for failure, as has now been proven?
I don't share your confidence obviously. — Nuke
There you go, that's it. Thanks for saying it better than I could.
It's not just policies, it's culture too. Hillary Clinton's "basket of deplorables" comment sums up the snotty superior mindset of so much of leftie culture pretty well. We need to face that attitude squarely and do something about it.
Studies of voter movement don't support that conclusion. The republican / democrat split doesn't run along income or occupation lines, but along education lines. — Echarmion
I think your intentions are good here, it's just hard not to conclude that people who still support Trump really must be in favor of tyranny, so long as they get to be part of the ruling class (or race). — Echarmion
But I am very sceptical about calls to "understand" such reasons. Shouldn't we instead figure out how to make people be better at being reasonable? — Echarmion
I think you are making a good point here, but how do you ignore Trump? His effect on discourse and divisiveness is very real, and has very real effect on trying to fo what your suggesting and make peace with his base. — DingoJones
When Trump says something ridiculous so as to stay in the headlines, we don't have to feed the beast by playing his game and getting all excited. Example: If I was making a bunch of wild angry claims on the forum you guys would yell at me for a bit, and then you'd get bored and ignore me. Like that.
We all know who Trump is now. There is no educational value in describing him any further. — Nuke
Aren't income/occupation and education very related?? — Nuke
There are such folks on all sides. You know, some lefties want the government to control pretty much every aspect of our lives. If you need to fart, you must first file a 17 page application with the EPA. :-) — Nuke
There will always be policy debates of course. My point is just that those debates will be more productive if we stop thinking of those on the other side as deplorable idiots etc. — Nuke
When talking about US politics in particular, though, a big problem remains that the republican power base is a small, highly mobilised voting block. — Echarmion
But because of the electoral college, voter suppression, and highly polarizing rhetoric, the Republicans have so far managed to stave off their demise. — Echarmion
But I don't know how one would translate that into a nationwide reconciliation. — Echarmion
What I wanted to point out was that there must be limits to what is considered a reasonable position — Echarmion
If you need to fart, you must first file a 17 page application with the EPA. :-) — Nuke
How do you deal with prejudice? Firstly, the prejudiced need to want to overcome their prejudice. — praxis
First of all If you have followed anything that NOS has posted on this forum you know that NOS can defend himself if he feels it's necessary. But of all the highly personal flaming that has occurred and been discussed on this forum you get triggered by:
So you lived in the US and then moved to Canada? I was just always surprised at your level of interest in US politics.
— Monitor
And you leap from your foxhole to defend poor NOS from such a vicious unprovoked attack.
I urge you to contact the Mods about me. — Monitor
As for the Gotcha, I didn't ask him if he still beats his wife. In fact I was trying to let him correct an inconsistency that was apparent in my post and deflected in his response. This is not the first time there has been inconsistency in his posts. And we still don't know how he voted for Trump in 2016 while living in Canada? Dual citizenship? I don't know. But he has incensed people around here to the point that some think he is a Russian troll so I don't think I out of line by quoting him dire — Monitor
Perhaps you are like NOS and the late Chester and just love to argue for the sake of arguing. — Monitor
Please. Like they are the only people who love to argue in this forum.
Thats very dishonest. — DingoJones
Hear hear.I hear ya, but there is a turning back. We can simply cut out the tribalism and superiority poses etc. Again, I'm not making a moral point, but a tactical one. It's not in our interest to play Trump's game with him. Here's the bumper sticker slogan. :-)
Ignore Trump, and embrace his base. — Nuke
When Trump says something ridiculous so as to stay in the headlines, we don't have to feed the beast by playing his game and getting all excited. Example: If I was making a bunch of wild angry claims on the forum you guys would yell at me for a bit, and then you'd get bored and ignore me. Like that.
We all know who Trump is now. There is no educational value in describing him any further. — Nuke
How do you deal with prejudice? Firstly, the prejudiced need to want to overcome their prejudice.
— praxis
Yea man, that's what I'm trying to discuss. Do we lefties wish to overcome our prejudices? — Nuke
What Im wondering about Is if Trump is being ignored by his opposition, than how do you prevent his empowerment among the people who are not ignoring him? Wouldnt the cult of personality only get stronger? — DingoJones
DESPICABLE.George [Floyd] is looking down right now, and saying 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country.' This is a great day for him, it's a great day for everybody. … This is a great, great day in terms of equality. — DJT, 6.5.20
If we want to understand Trump voters, we could start by trying to understand ourselves. Why are we clinging to polarization? Why do we so enjoy having an enemy? Why are we so drawn to the endless repetition of superiority poses? These are things we can work on which don't depend on anybody else. — Nuke
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