I then realized that theism is, at its core, a belief that there is a being whose commands one has to obey without question — TheMadFool
'Commanded to love' (re: JCI theism), I'd say yes.Is belief in god then a symptom of slave mentality? — TheMadFool
Isn't this slavery? A slave must obey his master's command and the master makes it clear that he has zero tolerance for any disobedience. — TheMadFool
Obedience is essential for development. eg someone practicing music or art must have great discipline/obedience — EnPassant
Are you defining discipline as obedience to one's self? — Pantagruel
I then realized that theism is, at its core, a belief that there is a being whose commands one has to obey without question — TheMadFool
A is even interested in telling us what to do. Why? — Pantagruel
Seems to me free-will is the ultimate gift (in every sense). — Pantagruel
depends on what you mean by obedience. Obedience is essential for development. eg someone practicing music or art must have great discipline/obedience. — EnPassant
A good soldier must learn obedience. A bad soldier will get killed. — EnPassant
That’s not so much theism as it is divine command theory. Not all theists subscribe to that. — Pfhorrest
a benevolent creator who will unfailingly look out for me no matter what? — TheMadFool
one of the most effective methods to make normal people do immoral things is to convince him/her that s/he is doing god's will. — TheMadFool
Will it change my life completely from what it is right now - meaningless and sad - to something else - meaningful and happy? — TheMadFool
I then realized that theism is, at its core, a belief that there is a being whose commands one has to obey without question. Isn't this slavery? — TheMadFool
I'm thinking about god right now. Don't get me wrong, I've spent a lot of time contemplating on god - does he exist? is he benevolent? is all religion just one massive delusion? and so on. Although I'm certain that I've devoted a considerable amount of time thinking on god I'm unsure how much of that thinking was of good quality.
As I wrestled with the idea of the divine, a thought crossed my mind - should I just take the plunge, make the leap of faith, and just believe in god, a benevolent creator who will unfailingly look out for me no matter what?
I began to feel a sense of comfort and peace engulf me like a warm blanket on a cold night. This just by entertaining a hypothetical acceptance of god; I wondered what greater peace and joy lay in store if I actually became a theist. Will it change my life completely from what it is right now - meaningless and sad - to something else - meaningful and happy?
Just as things were looking very bright for me and theism, I asked myself one single question: what is theism, actually? I then realized that theism is, at its core, a belief that there is a being whose commands one has to obey without question. Isn't this slavery? A slave must obey his master's command and the master makes it clear that he has zero tolerance for any disobedience. Yes, god's benevolence lessens the blow - surely a being who loves us will have our best interests in mind - but then ask yourself this: would anyone agree to be a slave to loving masters? No, right? Truth be told, benevolence precludes the condition of unquestioning obedience - they contradict each other.
Setting aside the good [slave] master conundrum for the moment, consider only how god demands absolute obedience, much like slavemasters did not too long ago.
Is belief in god then a symptom of slave mentality?
P.S. This isn't a comprehensive analysis but is just an exploratory effort on my part into how theism maybe a reflection of a slavish instinct within us all. — TheMadFool
Are you familiar with Pan-psychism (over 11 forms)? I would argue set theory goes very much with pan-psychism and even scientific determinism (~Fate). Set was an Egyptian god. The subset is always somewhat enslaved to the Set. I believe Set (the egyptian god) is a derivative of Adam's third son Seth. We are paritally related to Seth and Cain according to Christianity.
Spinoza used the basic notion of Pan-psychism and broke away from Judaism, however i think the jews recognized Pan-psychism to some extent which is what partially (partially) propelled Spinoza to take it one step to far.
I don't believe Solomon was 100% correct when he said God dwells in darkness. He was partially correct but Solomon in terms of some of the things he said were based on partial knowledge and a limited ability to witness reality. I believe God is like a star in that he is a very bright object surrounded by darkness. Do a bing or google search on chapters or passages dealing with God dwelling in darkness. — christian2017
Fundamental misconception. You're not commanded to believe in Christianity, it is entirely up to you whether you do or not. God is not depicted as an oriental despot or authoritarian dictator. Christ was 'born in a manger' unlike the gods of the ancient world. But you are always a free being, it's always your own choice. Sadly Christianity itself has often lost sight of this fundamental doctrine.
A Christian would say that most people are really enslaved by all kinds of things that are beneath them - possessions, sensations, addictions, dependencies and other kinds of hindrances and obstacles. What is at stake, according to them, is your discovery that your actual nature is nothing at all like what people mainly accept. Because of attachment to the transitory world of passing attachments, we fail to realise our true nature and heritage. That I take to be the message of Christianity. — Wayfarer
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." — Acts 16:31
That would be false or misguided obedience. — EnPassant
Oh. I'm sorry I wasn't aware in the few days I've been away someone ended child hunger and slavery. *clears throat extremely loudly*
Look I don't know you mate. What you have on your plate or how your health is and whatnot but I'd bet money you wouldn't know sadness and misery if it bit you in the arse.
Sorry. Taking a deep breath. What I meant to say was, I've read many of your posts and a few threads during my time here. Always decent. Usually enjoying or at least mildly interesting. So, while I may not know you, I know your words and views are- at least in a small way- part of my own life now and consider them very meaningful. As do others I'm sure. Still, it's your perspective that you're asking about being changed more than anything. What do you think?
Hapiness is complicated. Contentness brings complacency which brings inattentiveness which brings mistakes which brings suffering.
Furthermore it's not some sleazy massage parlour under the expressway. You don't just come in saying you'll do or give this and that for this and that in return. It takes time. It's a journey. Especially for the demanding. — Outlander
To entertain the idea of false/misguided obedience is to sow the seeds of disobedience that ultimately leads to the rejection of god. — TheMadFool
The hope is that it would lead to wise obedience. Slavish obedience is not a good thing. Obedience should be understood rather than rejected at face value. There is a worthy goal in wise obedience. — EnPassant
You have a point there I suppose. What means you by wise obedience? — TheMadFool
What I've referred to as the (mono)theistic 'command to love' seems akin to masochistic rape-fantasy or self-abnegation:Is belief in god then a symptom of slave mentality?
— TheMadFool
'Commanded to love' (re: JCI theism), I'd say yes. — 180 Proof
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one, and as for you, you shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. — The Shema (Torah prayer, Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18b)
It was a common practice. A sign of status. It'd be like having acres of land today. Many were inherited and naturally a responsibility. Of course you a 21st century person reading this on a computer can't imagine being in the 17th century when *I think* they finally invented a flushing toilet. No one like that could. — Outlander
Moreover though, the idea of 'a slave to God' is a bit of a misnomer for several reasons. That assumes you believe in a God that created you for essentially no reason and usually some kind of Hell. Not hard to put two and two together. Even not, you'd just be a slave to whoever happens to be stronger than you. Not only physically, but mentally, and that's the ticket to understanding. I suppose you could say morality and whatnot didn't come from or by means of God. I say, look around even today. Do you really think anyone with amassed power would give it up just because some philosopher came up with an emotionally satisfying monologue or an oppressed people looked at the person with a sad face? Doubtful. It took divine power. And suffering. — Outlander
Are you familiar with Pan-psychism (over 11 forms)? I would argue set theory goes very much with pan-psychism and even scientific determinism (~Fate). Set was an Egyptian god. The subset is always somewhat enslaved to the Set. I believe Set (the egyptian god) is a derivative of Adam's third son Seth. We are paritally related to Seth and Cain according to Christianity.
Spinoza used the basic notion of Pan-psychism and broke away from Judaism, however i think the jews recognized Pan-psychism to some extent which is what partially (partially) propelled Spinoza to take it one step to far.
I don't believe Solomon was 100% correct when he said God dwells in darkness. He was partially correct but Solomon in terms of some of the things he said were based on partial knowledge and a limited ability to witness reality. I believe God is like a star in that he is a very bright object surrounded by darkness. Do a bing or google search on chapters or passages dealing with God dwelling in darkness.
— christian2017
My memory isn't what it used to be and it wasn't something worth mentioning to begin with. All I remember is briefly reading about Egyptian gods but I have no memory of the exact details of the mythology surrounding them.
Anyway, what would be useful to me, in the current context of god making slaves of men, is whether Egyptians too thought of gods as beings that had to be worshipped in ways that suggest a desire to obey them (the gods) unconditionally.
As for Solomon, all I know is he was famed for his wisdom. What does he mean by "god dwells in darkness"? — TheMadFool
In other words, there's something dreadful waiting for us at an undesignated location and at an unspecified time and the only way I can save myself and my family is to believe in Jesus. — TheMadFool
Is belief in god then a symptom of slave mentality? — TheMadFool
The concept of men being slaves to the gods or being slaves to the city state temple priests who commune with the gods is very ancient — christian2017
I think you're looking at it through the perspective of a hellfire smalltown preacher. — Wayfarer
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.