The elite's primary project is to remain the elite and keep the rest of us on edge with each other so we don't turn on them! They are good at this. They've been doing it for centuries, all over the world. — Bitter Crank
Those complicit regarding matters of institutional racism and it's residual effects/affects will remain so as long as doing so poses no threat to their own lives and/or livelihoods.
Is that a good summary?
I mean, do I understand you correctly? — creativesoul
Did someone already answer this? Or is this some kind of mine field trap? I'll give my thoughts anyway:Please watch this and share your thoughts. — Tzeentch
Here in the UK, it's the rightwing media which drives racism, to boost their readership and make a bit of profit. Not to mention, as a driver for Brexit. — Punshhh
You can choose to read the Guardian.Here in the UK, it's the rightwing media which drives racism, to boost their readership and make a bit of profit. Not to mention, as a driver for Brexit. — Punshhh
Great that you don't advocate violence. Me neither.22,000 children are killed at work every year in positions of slavery working to produce the crap that supports our 'peaceful society'.
I'm not advocating violence, but it's willful blindness to pretend that violence isn't already happening. Its just neatly hidden away. — Isaac
And if in Ethiopia a Chine factory uses child labor in miserable working conditions, that is the reason to burn down a McDonalds in Wyoming? That will really help the Ethiopian children or what? — ssu
if we have a smartphone that has lithium battery using cobalt mined from the Republic of Congo? That's the willful blindness? — ssu
Surely something has to be done, but how do we get the change we want? — ssu
So you admit it won't help theNo, but McDonald's using child labour in miserable working conditions is a reason to burn down McDonald's in Wyoming. - If McDonalds thinks it's OK to use child slaves to make their stuff, then a stiff letter isn't going to cut it. Burning them down might. — Isaac
Do they at McDonalds think it's OK? — ssu
Do you think that they are irrelevant of an media article like that appearing? — ssu
So there's no other way than to burn down franchising to get the message? — ssu
the article is 20 years old, but it doesn't matter, nothing has changed in twenty years in China, right? — ssu
Because let's remember that you had that smartphone which uses cobalt dug up by that poor Congolese kid, then perhaps your house should be burned down. — ssu
If you don't use anti-child labor eco-friendly 'happy cobalt', your house might be burnt down. Wouldn't that just change peoples behavior!??? Remember I'm using the 'happy cobalt' mined by those happy miners adhering to environmental regulations at the Murrin Murrin mine. So, have I really made things better with my anti-child labor choices? — ssu
at least with burning down that McDonalds in Wyoming you have likely put one franchising entrepreneur in severe economic difficulty and few low paid workers (who might be poc) out of a job because you burned their workplace down at a time when the economy is very bad and a pandemic is going around. Guess all that makes the World a better place then. — ssu
Did someone already answer this? Or is this some kind of mine field trap? I'll give my thoughts anyway:
Shelby Steele is one of those few critics in the black community who point out things and do make a genuine point, but unfortunately are seen as giving ammunition to racists and hence are political incorrect, persona non grata or are seen as an uncle Tom, a person regarded as betraying their cultural or social allegiance. Has every program intended to improve the situation of African Americans failed as Steele says? I don't think that is the case, but surely not all have been a success. Just to give an example (from the interview you posted), when Steele says (22+ min forward) that "White guilt is based on the terror of being seen as a racist" and later "the black leadership have become hustlers who work this white guilt", that comment would be something that white supremacists would love to use. — ssu
Well I suppose the media could have exploited an underlying xenophobia in the population. But once the ball was rolling they just threw more and more fuel on the fire. Just like they did over Brexit.Unlikely. Newspapers seem to respond to bias, not drive it. People are always looking for some external bogeyman to blame.
Poverty as a personal failing instead of a social problem. — Benkei
Because it's not less effective. Terrorism works. It gets huge media coverage and gets people truly afraid. Would you publicly use a smart phone if someone can takes a photo of you, tracks down where you live and puts your house on fire?There are much more effective target which cause much less harm. Why would anyone deliberately choose a more harmful, less effective form of protest? — Isaac
Who decides that? You?But individuals are almost never significantly associated with the act of complicity. — Isaac
I only tried to make a point of how ludicrous the web you create of what is complicity and what isn't. Because if a small cabal protest the use of something as complicity to bad behavior, then the question rises that what then is "good behavior"? Hence the comparison between cobalt and "happy cobalt".I don't understand the connection to the argument here. — Isaac
Well, I think a person that starts up a franchising business and employs typically young people (who many times have that job as their first) are people that I would support in my community even if don't him or her personally. Why the employees and the entrepreneur have to lose their jobs for a media photo op is disgusting and their "complicity" in the problems global markets is rather dubious.Well yes, that's the point. You'd need some evidence to counter it, simply repeating an argument back sarcastically doesn't constitue a counter-argument. — Isaac
I'm not so sure that he said they have "only themselves to blame" and that his argument is the "get a haircut and get a real job"-answer or some Ayn Randian libertarian response.Shelby Steele more or less says in that interview that "blacks" don't have the right value system to deal with freedom and the responsibility that comes with it, and that they only have themselves to blame for the lack of progress since the 1960s. - Typical "laissez-faire capitalist and individualist bullshit" where you're poor because you're not working hard enough. Poverty as a personal failing instead of a social problem. — Benkei
Would you publicly use a smart phone if someone can takes a photo of you, tracks down where you live and puts your house on fire? — ssu
Who decides that? You? — ssu
Because if a small cabal protest the use of something as complicity to bad behavior, then the question rises that what then is "good behavior"? — ssu
And if you protest the situation of child labor in Congo, is then the answer to put an embargo on it and make things worse the 12,5 million people or one fifth of the population that is employed by Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining, because the country is such a mess that only a few mining companies dare to operate there? — ssu
Why the employees and the entrepreneur have to lose their jobs for a media photo op is disgusting and their "complicity" in the problems global markets is rather dubious. — ssu
Do you really think there is some kind of consistent coordination amongst the super rich and politically powerful? — Marchesk
I'm not so sure that he said they have "only themselves to blame" and that his argument is the "get a haircut and get a real job"-answer or some Ayn Randian libertarian response. — ssu
I know a lot of groups from history like that. They are called dictatorships or authoritarian regimes. Keeping people in fear was/is a control tool for them. They differ from ordinary mobsters in that they surely have great plans for the improvement of the World, at least in their own thinking. The World is going to be a better place, if only you eradicate the capitalists / the jews / the communists whoever from society. That's how they think. Bold dramatic moves have to be taken! And they don't believe in democracy.But yes, if there were such a bizarre group then threatening arson probably would work. Why, do you know of such a group? — Isaac
Are you having trouble seeing that we use mobile phones? Or computers? You are using some kind of hardware to write on this site, aren't you? If so, then people generally ask then: "OK, if I'm not going to use this bad company (because they use cobalt from Congo), what will I do then?"Are you having trouble seeing why not buying your phone from a company who are willing to exploit child labour might be considered "good behavior"? — Isaac
And what's the difference then if you buy a toy made by child labour?They're making a profit directly out of the fact that the products they sell have been made using slave labour. How is that 'dubious'? — Isaac
I know a lot of groups from history like that. They are called dictatorships or authoritarian regimes. Keeping people in fear was/is a control tool for them. They differ from ordinary mobsters in that they surely have great plans for the improvement of the World, at least in their own thinking. The World is going to be a better place, if only you eradicate the capitalists / the jews / the communists whoever from society. That's how they think. Bold dramatic moves have to be taken! And they don't believe in democracy. — ssu
people generally ask then: "OK, if I'm not going to use this bad company (because they use cobalt from Congo), what will I do then?" — ssu
Are you less complicit than the young student working on the counter at the fast food restaurant trying to get some income? — ssu
So you might be against attacking families that have bought a Happy-meal, but Ok with the young employee losing his or her job and perhaps happy about the entrepreneur losing his business. And all because it gets into the local news! — ssu
Because it is goddam hard and the choices are quite arbitrary! A Dutch company tries to your eco-friendly phones called Fairphones. It says it can reach 40% of the materials used would be ethically sourced or recycled (of dozens of materials used). Again, arbitrary choices about what is complicit and what isn't.Use one which doesn't use child labour. Why are you finding this concept so hard? — Isaac
ASM supports 16 to 20 percent of the population of the DRC and is a critical economic driver in the country’s move out of war (World Bank 2008). Because women make up as much as 50 percent of the ASM labor force and are often their families’ principal providers (Hinton, Veiga, and Beinhoff 2003), what happens in the ASM sector has tremendous economic implications for the country as a whole.
ASM represents a tangible—and, in the short term, valuable—economic opportunity for both men and women in the DRC. ASM needs little advance investment or lead time, and therefore has significant potential to provide quick economic returns. If the sector’s association with conflict and abuse could be removed, its potential to generate peace dividends could be great.
Because it is goddam hard and the choices are quite arbitrary! A Dutch company tries to your eco-friendly phones called Fairphones. It says it can reach 40% of the materials used would be ethically sourced or recycled (of dozens of materials used). Again, arbitrary choices about what is complicit and what isn't. — ssu
if a fifth of the population of Congo gets income from mining and the vast amount of this is from artisanal and small scale mining (ASM), why would you then be against one of the most poorest people in the World? — ssu
The reality is complex, but your answers are simple and arbitrary. — ssu
...the beliefs are attached to the person and unfortunately generational beliefs do not change easily. — Anaxagoras
As a black man myself, despite my ideals of egalitarianism I am left with the memories of my mother, father, and grand-parents of their struggle and the affect of their wariness implanted on my soul. Because of that, I'm left with the reality that I may indirectly implant the wariness of "non-persons of color" upon my potential children despite also implanting upon them the love for all humanity. — Anaxagoras
I think my death would suffice in helping promote egalitarianism... — Anaxagoras
...there is still the question of complicity despite those who do not share the racist mentality. That itself is just as dangerous as the racist mind. — Anaxagoras
The recent protests have given me hope for the future in that there are multi-ethnic people champion the cause of a minority group. To see LGBTQA+ community come out in solidarity with BLM, to see whites, Asians, Muslims, Jews, Christians, nurses, doctors, professionals, and even policemen and women themselves come out in solidarity gives me hope. — Anaxagoras
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