This is a pretty complex question. Habermas, for example, sees over specialization as one of the main causes of alienation in modernity.

No doubt, we are beginning to learn about the ubiquitous benefits of adopting a holistic approach. I'm sure education is no exception. Should we divorce education from the demands of mere technical exigencies? Perhaps, but this then becomes an even larger economic issue. Complex.

However, the education system constantly reinforces the wrong mindset where they test and grade us. — Josh Lee

From a student of the mathematician Terence Tao (UCLA):

"245C (1st year grad real analysis) was a course on special topics and was more loosely structured. Your grade was 100% based on attendance. His rationale was, "If you've reached this point, you're here because you want to be here and learn the material. Why burden you." This 'honor system' worked well. I remember spending almost every lunch after class with other students loosely discussing and sketching proofs."

This approach is unusual, but not unheard of. However, Tao's students, who were eager to learn, went through a traditional curriculum to reach this point. Normally, undergraduate classes include some who are not eager, even in their major subject.

Bennigton College has for years made grades optional:

"In addition to feedback during the term, student work at Bennington is evaluated through written reports by faculty members submitted to the Office of the Provost and Dean at the end of each term.
Narrative evaluations summarize an instructor’s view of a student’s progress and are the basis upon which the Office of the Provost and Dean judges the student’s capacity to continue at the College (in addition to evaluating the Plan process and FWT). For this reason, and because the end-of-term evaluative reports make up the largest part of a student’s transcript, students should make a point of examining them closely and discussing them with their faculty advisor. The evaluations reflect the significant aspects of a student’s work. While evaluations are not routinely mailed to parents or guardians, the College may do so at the written request of a student.
The final evaluation appraises the student’s work for the term and is part of the student’s permanent transcript. The final evaluation includes a judgment of Pass (comparable to A+ through C), Marginal Pass (comparable to a C- – D-), and Fail. No credits are given for classes where a student earns a Failing grade. Faculty provide ongoing feedback on student progress throughout the term. They may document concerns about a student’s standing in a course with an Academic Concern Form, which is part of a student’s internal record, but does not appear as part of the student’s transcript. The concern form is part of an ongoing conversation between the student, faculty member, and the student’s faculty advisor."

We educate ourselves in a certain field, reach a point where we feel we have sufficient knowledge, then we restart again in a different field — Josh Lee

Been there, done that. So I have a little sympathy for your concerns. I will admit that the second field for me (mathematics) became tiresome at times, frustrating having to do considerable course work and solve problems that had been solved by generations of students, then being tested, etc. Some of those classes took a real and sustained effort to work through, especially if the subjects were uninteresting for me.

But once they were done and I could begin research, academic life changed dramatically and I became free to roam and discover in an exciting new existence. I take it that is how you would like for the entire process to be. I wish that were so, but most of us must work for a living, and society requires credentialing. And playfully creating in an intellectual arena requires laborious preparation. And all those studies in boring topics? Well, you learn the scope of your subject and how seemingly disparate concepts interrelate.

Just babbling - pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. :smile:

Funding.

Do you guys agree with this and what can we do to change or improve the system? — Josh Lee

Yes, and lots. Here are some my pals and some of their ideas...

Maria Montessori.
John Holt.
Ivan Illich.
Paulo Friere.
Jiddu Krishnamurti.
Robert Pirsig.
A. S. Neill.

The goal of the education system is to both educate AND grade you.

Einstein was also, as it happens, a critic of the modern academic approach. However, is the issue itself in academia and the academic framework that has been set forth by society, or is it in the attention span and forever changing and expanding interests of the human mind?

I like to think that I am not alone in always wanting to learn more about a wide variety of subjects. Too much time spent in one specific area of study leads to boredom and eventual distraction.

Everything in moderation.

However, the education system constantly reinforces the wrong mindset where they test and grade us. This is like rushing us to reach an end, without caring for the process itself. This somewhat takes the meaning away from education where the end goal is a certificate or diploma, instead of learning itself.

Do you guys agree with this and what can we do to change or improve the system? — Josh Lee

Yes. Because we use the quantity of those diplomas as a number showing the success of the education system. The more people have diplomas the better, it seems.

Especially the role of education is seen far too simplistically in the society. Far too easily it's just assumed that if people are more educated, they get better jobs and the prosperity of the whole society increases. Yes, it's a fact that if people cannot read, there's not many highly demanded high tech jobs for them. But education just by itself doesn't create those high tech jobs either. It's not an economic equation that if we only have more a) natural resources, b) infrastucture, c) education that the prosperity increases. Education should not be looked upon from such narrow viewpoint.

A good example of this is to enlargen education really to "lifelong learning". The positive aspects of lifelong learning are that it enhances social inclusion, active citizenship, personal development, self-sustainability, as well as competitiveness and employability.


Besides, being uneducated sucks.

In fairness, the American education system has some advantages compared to other countries. In the English speaking West Indies, the primary schools are modeled on the British school system. Where we lived, children had to pass the Common Entrance Exam to be able to go on to secondary school. At the time, the number of students who passed the exam was low. There would be villages where only a handful of students would continue their education past the age of 12 or 13.

True. Although this system no longer exists in Britain. Perhaps this is modelled on a much older system?

I like to think that I am not alone in always wanting to learn more about a wide variety of subjects. Too much time spent in one specific area of study leads to boredom and eventual distraction. — Wandering-Philosopher

Not really in moderation, but perhaps what the school teaches is not what interests you? There are some researchers who dive deep into their area of expertise and never seem to get bored or burned out as many would say. It’s probably the subject does not interest you and the depth of it makes it even more boring.

In fairness, the American education system has some advantages compared to other countries. In the English speaking West Indies, the primary schools are modeled on the British school system. Where we lived, children had to pass the Common Entrance Exam to be able to go on to secondary school. At the time, the number of students who passed the exam was low. There would be villages where only a handful of students would continue their education past the age of 12 or 13. — elphidium55

This is quite similar to Singapore, haha probably an Asian thing where we take pride in comparing and grading ourselves.

Yes. Because we use the quantity of those diplomas as a number showing the success of the education system. The more people have diplomas the better, it seems. — ssu

That is what most people will argue for, if you don’t have any credentials how can people trust you in the workforce.

It's not an economic equation that if we only have more a) natural resources, b) infrastucture, c) education that the prosperity increases. Education should not be looked upon from such narrow viewpoint. — ssu

True that nothing guarantees economic success, it’s probably comprised of multiple factors which play key parts and education does play a component of it.

A good example of this is to enlargen education really to "lifelong learning". The positive aspects of lifelong learning are that it enhances social inclusion, active citizenship, personal development, self-sustainability, as well as competitiveness and employability. — ssu

Haha this probably be the end goal of education, but it’s somewhat idealistic and hopeful considering our current state.

This approach is unusual, but not unheard of. However, Tao's students, who were eager to learn, went through a traditional curriculum to reach this point. Normally, undergraduate classes include some who are not eager, even in their major subject. — jgill

From what you quoted, sounds like an interesting suggestion, however society is so rigid and it’ll take much work to implement such changes.

True that nothing guarantees economic success, it’s probably comprised of multiple factors which play key parts and education does play a component of it. — Josh Lee

Indeed.

Especially in the 60's there was a huge belief that education would solve everything. It isn't so, even if education is extremely important. The Catch-22 is that if you have a good and working education sector, the society already has to be prosperous. Or then you have the typical divide of good or tolerable education for the rich and outright nonexistent education for the poor.

In a Third World country an university professor has to have a second job perhaps as a cab driver to feed his family, which tells a lot.

The Catch-22 is that if you have a good and working education sector, the society already has to be prosperous. Or then you have the typical divide of good or tolerable education for the rich and poor and outright nonexistent education for the poor. — ssu

Haha guess it’s somewhat a chicken an egg story. Is this country prosperous because of their education or it’s because they’re prosperous hence they can afford quality education. Won’t deny this is an issue worth questioning. After all education is not necessary to survive. Food and shelter is more essential. To obtain both you don’t need a Phd in any field, just turn to tribes and watch them flourish with their medieval skills.

I remember some sociologists referring development happening in the way of an "take off". This means that enough of various variables have to happening at the same time for a country or a society to make dramatically change. Hence only having every little brat sitting on a school chair and learning math and English won't the problems of a poor country.

In fact, a too easy revenue stream seems to behave as an outright curse. If you have huge natural reserves like oil, there is somebody always willing to buy it and pump it up from the ground no matter how crazy things are in the country. Money flows in, but doesn't create necessarily prosperity among the people. You do not actually need a highly trained workforce for the money to flow into the country and there aren't strings attached, hence usually the end result is corruption and misery. Perhaps only Norway has been apt to handle the riches from oil as even the UK went on a spending binge when it had huge oil reserves in the North Sea. (And at least the UAE has built awesome skyscrapers, to say something positive about them.)

, I'd say the best way to improve via critique is by already knowing what we criticize.
Common educational systems can be improved for sure, but we have to know them to launch critique.
Like, uhm, say, Einstein had intimate knowledge of Newtonian mechanics/gravitation before improving upon it with relativity.
Anyway, just my two ¢s on this fine day. Carry on.