most of them are based on rates not totals — Enai De A Lukal
and in any case you would have to actually show that the math works out as you claim (that the disparities disappear when account for rates rather than totals) — Enai De A Lukal
Wrong. So you put out a blurb referencing a survey, which I then look up and read, share with you, you allege I haven't read and then you don't even now the universe of respondents after I literally quoted it word for word from the latest survey? Disingenuous much? — Benkei
Actually it is how it works. The studies are rates of police violence by race/ethnicity, not totals. And yes, if you assert, as you did above, that the cited studies do not show what they claim to show, then you absolutely need to back that assertion up, in this case by showing why the data doesn't entail the conclusions the authors claim. Sort of how this whole thing works. If you're unable/unwilling to meet your burden of proof, that's your prerogative. But it means you've effectively retracted your claim. — Enai De A Lukal
And in any case you do not appear to be serious about the discussion, as evidenced by your refusal to engage in any way with studies showing precisely what you claimed (without evidence) that there was no evidence (amusing irony, btw). — Enai De A Lukal
Obviously if certain ethnicities are overrepresented in certain crimes like homocide, that needs to be taken into account when judging the numbers, even when it is a 'rate'. — Tzeentch
You cannot infer what you wanted to infer about systemic racism within the police in their interactions with suspects from the way police treat victims. That's not an issue with the study, it's an issue with using the study for a conclusion it doesn't support. — Benkei
You need to be careful with this too due to Simpson's paradox. — Benkei
In any case, I think it's irrelevant as to the question if there is systemic racism in the US. We know blacks are disproportionaly killed and incarcerated in the US. Let's assume the police are not biased. Let's assume the criminal justice system is fair. Blacks are still disproportionally killed and incarcerated. So either that's
a) due to race essentialism because blacks have a propensity for crime, or
b) something about the way society works or has worked causing the disparity (eg. systemic racism). — Benkei
I don't think those are the only two options, and this type of binary thinking (e.g. "you must agree systemic racism exists or you must be a racist") is typical for this debate. It's polarizing, but most of all it's anti-intellectual, since reality is almost universally more complicated than we like to assume. — Tzeentch
↪Tzeentch PragerU, are you serious — darthbarracuda
Anyone who cites Prager U disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously, ever. — StreetlightX
Yes.Let's go back a few steps. Are blacks disproportionality killed by police and incarcerated in the US or not? — Benkei
What's actually misused in these debates is the inability for people to make a coherent argument and instead of that post videos from which their interlocutors are apparently to derive their point. — Benkei
Are blacks disproportionality killed by police and incarcerated in the US or not? — Benkei
What's the cause or causes according to you if not one of the two options I provided? — Benkei
The question then becomes, where does the income disparity come from?
According to Thomas Sowell, a lot of this can be attributed to failed government policy. Programs like the welfare state and affirmative action did more to hurt the communities they were intended to support. Unintended effects were, for example, the subsidizing of poor life choices. African-American communities were hit especially hard by these government failures. — Tzeentch
Yes.
But then again there is disproportionately more crime done by African Americans than by whites. Of course in a similar way we could argue that in any country (yours or mine) it's the poor that are disproportionately the "customers" of the police as seldom is it the rich people mugging people or stealing things. — ssu
This is different from systemic racism because...? — Benkei
You know the various reasons, starting from slavery and the people that call even their own poor "trash".And they are disproportionally poor because...? — Benkei
Part of Sowell's criticism on failed programs are quite similar how in general welfare programs don't eradicate povetry.Let's assume this is all true. This is different from systemic racism because...? Or do you agree there's systemic racism but think people are not clear on the causes yet? — Benkei
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