there's a difference between people here rejecting violence and looting and right wing commentators instilling fear of looting and violence with the objective to divide people (for the elections). The latter are the real problem, not the people with ideas similar to PF. — ssu

No. the real real problem is the unfair and unequal treatment of people and the violation of their most basic human rights. People talking on PF is no problem at all, as long as it has no effect on anyone's behaviour. But what people think does rather tend to inform their behaviour. That is why such a lot of money and effort is spent trying to get people to think a certain way. Are disputing that my rightwing meme was condemned as a left wing meme on this thread? Do you not see the implications? What's your beef?

The person who misunderstood your post was Baden who is clearly leftwing, I called you a leftist because of past experiences.

Not all whites are racist. Some will treat you and your children with respect... — creativesoul

I believe we’re both on the same page it’s just my words perhaps are just constructed the wrong way or my meaning is somehow escaping through my efforts. I guess what I am trying to say is that by imbuing racial caution, and because society may never get to the point of being egalitarian I am afraid that I could instill some sort of mental “self-fulfilling” prophecy.

For example my mother, well, I want to say most black parents in the inner city teach their children how to conduct themselves with regards to law enforcement. Now, notice I said “most” because I know there are a few outliers. Naturally, instead of being instilled with the sense of protection and trust in police, it was mostly instilling in me a sense authority and fear. Because of the early experiences of black people dealing with the police, there is that caution, mistrust, and dislike.

Similarly I am very careful around whites. And yes, like you said not all are racist and I am well aware of that, but my experiences not only outside the internet but on the internet. Whether it’s video games, social media, or discussion boards I am continuously bombarded with the realization that I am not seen as a human being but as a less than desirable.

You should look up Jane Elliot’s brown eyed blue eyed study

I called you a leftist because of past experiences. — Judaka

That's extremely cool, and I have absolutely no objection to being called a leftist. However, the matter having been brought up, it would be interesting to see what the fair-minded rightist has by way of a justification of violence, given that destruction of property or seemingly any contravention of the law by way of resistance to murderous oppression by law officers is unjustified. Care to have a go?

Why don't you try figuring out why the only recourse has become violence and work backwards.

You should look up Jane Elliot’s brown eyed blue eyed study — Anaxagoras

I done seen it a while back and forgot it again. But it's kind of obvious isn't it? Well obviously it isn't at all obvious, 61 pages un-obvious. And the determined resistance to acknowledging the truth is just that people like to think well of themselves and especially that if they have any privileges, they are justified and deserved.

Why don't you try figuring out why the only recourse has become violence and working backwards. — Judaka

It's completely obvious, so no effort is required. It's even spelled out in my challenge to you that you have not accepted. The law is enforced unjustly. There is no legal recourse, and folks don't want to be the next arrested corpse.

Why is there no legal recourse and what would a legal recourse look like?

↪unenlightened
Why is there no legal recourse and what would a legal recourse look like? — Judaka

Start responding yourself. When is violence justified?

Before I would ask myself when an act of violence was justified I'd ask if it achieved its aim. After all, how can violence be justified if it's pointless or even counterproductive? Aimless violence is hard to justify.

So you have no principle beyond might is right. Congratulations, you have achieved low-life status.

Start responding yourself. When is violence justified? — unenlightened

If the problem is with the state/the system why not go after them as opposed to random private businesses?

Exactly

If the problem is with the state/the system why not go after them as opposed to random private businesses? — BitconnectCarlos

Hit em where it hurts, not where you get annihilated. Kind of like you don't punch your opponent's gun, but their face, even though the bullets come from the gun. Fuck me, and I thought i was the wimpy pacifist type round here. You lot are just so pathetically naive.

I was going to make a separate post but I think I’ll just post it here as it relates to the subject matter. What do you all make of what Morgan Freeman said in the following?



Now, judging by the amount of videos on YouTube from different people titling it “Morgan Freeman solves racism in 30 seconds” clearly these videos and their high volume of thumbs up, I’d have to subscribe to the thought as Jane Elliot would put it, is that whites who are uncomfortable discussing racism and the issues that afflict minority communities are totally in agreement with Freeman because it takes away the realization that it exists and that the systemic oppression that extends from white supremacy.

The usual defense to deflecting in discussing racism and systemic oppression usually is followed by

“There is no racism we had a black president”

“There is no racism there are multimillionaire black athletes.”

“There is no racism because there are successful Indian politicians.”

Ironically how 1% of talented and successful as well as rich black athletes tends to be tantamount to no racism. Or similarly, how successful politicians of color equates to somehow there is no racism or systemic racism. This ultimately goes back to what Jane Elliot says in a posted video by a member here that because whites are privileged, they’re incapable of perceiving racism through the eyes of the other because in their mind they think we’re all equal “if I can be successful and apply myself so can you” type of attitude.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Mr Freeman here. I cannot simply ignore something that is both blatant and indirect. I too face racism everyday in my professional career. Some people teach their kids racism and those kids grow up in positions of power that can affect the latter generations of people of color.

Words can hurt you know? I did try to give you the opportunity to say something intelligent.

I did try to give you the opportunity to say something intelligent. — Judaka

I don't need your help, but the condescension is amusing.

It's probably more correct to say that you won't be helped by my help rather than saying you don't need it.


That video does describe how to resolve the race problem. Also, it doesn't say that there is no racism now.

That solution just doesn't mean like some in this thread demand it be taken to mean that the social issues surrounding systemic racism can just be ignored. Or that the economic and social issues caused by systemic racism just magically disappear because you stopped highlighting race.

Of course, it's obvious that you wouldn't agree with it but to be fair, you're a full-blown racist? You treat people entirely different based on their skin colour and you admit it freely.

In your analogy you imply that a local business - say, like a sporting good store or a shoe store - is part of the opponent (you liken it to the face of the opponent.) So just to be clear you're saying that these stores are the enemy, or at least a part of the enemy.

you're a full-blown racist? — Judaka

And where did you get that idea?

You treat people entirely different based on their skin colour and you admit it freely. — Judaka

No I don’t. I am wary of some whites sure because I’ve been treated differently in my history. That doesn’t mean I am going to treat all whites as if they’re my enemy. I let all individuals have the opportunity to hang themselves.

That's cool, I got it from other threads, I'm glad you let individuals have the opportunity to hang themselves.

Do you think systemic racism is mainly caused by a large percentage of the population believing in white supremacy? What prevalent social or economic issue do you think the US is doing a good job of solving right now that isn't related to systemic racism?

So just to be clear you're saying that these stores are the enemy, or at least a part of the enemy. — BitconnectCarlos

Yes. private property is not a natural phenomenon, it is an institution that is a major, indeed frequently dominant part of the state. As is amply demonstrated by the way the troops are called in to defend it. The state does not say, hey it's a private matter, don't bother to call out the cops.

All right, cool, as long as you're being consistent.

Just to support this, here is some history of private institutions from my own neck of the woods. No doubt other places have their own history.

Part of the untaught history that Jane Elliot talks about in the second video above is the way the industrial revolution was funded by slavery - we tend to hear how the white man did it, and not so much about the black necks he was standing on at the time.

Pertinant to the OP - education and love are not the answer:

“We have been taught that ignorance and hate lead to racist ideas, lead to racist policies,” Kendi said. “If the fundamental problem is ignorance and hate, then your solutions are going to be focused on education, and love and persuasion. But of course [Stamped from the Beginning] shows that the actual foundation of racism is not ignorance and hate, but self-interest, particularly economic and political and cultural.” Self-interest drives racist policies that benefit that self-interest. When the policies are challenged because they produce inequalities, racist ideas spring up to justify those policies. Hate flows freely from there.

... “You can be someone who has no intention to be racist,” who believes in and fights for equality, “but because you’re conditioned in a world that is racist and a country that is structured in anti-black racism, you yourself can perpetuate those ideas,” says Kendi. No matter what color you are."

https://theundefeated.com/features/ibram-kendi-leading-scholar-of-racism-says-education-and-love-are-not-the-answer/

Yes, people not endorsing or condoning looting and violence obviously is the huge attitude problem they have here. — ssu

That's not remotely what I am saying. What I am suggesting is that there is a disparity between the condemnation of violence in defence of the human right to fair and equal treatment, and the support of violence in defence of property rights. — unenlightened

No. the real real problem is the unfair and unequal treatment of people and the violation of their most basic human rights. — unenlightened

If the problem is with the state/the system why not go after them as opposed to random private businesses? — BitconnectCarlos

Hit em where it hurts, not where you get annihilated. — unenlightened

Seems to me, and do correct me if I'm wrong, that you are talking about two different things whereas BC is talking about the same issue.

Seems to me, and do correct me if I'm wrong, that you are talking about two different things whereas BC is talking about the same issue. — ssu

I wonder why I am so hard to understand. Can you perhaps let me know what two different things I am talking about and whether or not one of them is the same thing that BC is being consistent about? That will make it easier for me to correct you if you are wrong.