Pfhorrest
Then I don't know what to make of this:
...are these ideas the proper referents of such-and-such words.
— Pfhorrest
because I don't know what the referent of, say, "Democracy" is. — Banno
I like to be productive with my time.
— tilda-psychist
You are not forced to be here. — Banno
Does that mean the PoMo movement has resulted in driving the political Left and Right farther apart? I hadn't thought of the cynical "fake news" notion as a reaction to Postmodern pushing from the Left. :chin: — Gnomon
I think it is unfair to say that postmodernism resulted in a new Grand Narrative, but rather comprises a whole slew of critiques of the modern narrative. — Adam's Off Ox
The funny thing is religionists are very often the ones who ones who reject post-modernism. — tilda-psychist
The funny thing is religionists are very often the ones who ones who reject post-modernism.
— tilda-psychist
Indeed. Particularly the Fundy extremist. — 3017amen
Are you saying objective truth doesn't exist? — tilda-psychist
You don't have to be a fundy extremist to accept that objective truth exists. — tilda-psychist
Yes. That's what I meant by the observation that PoMo may have driven the Left and Right farther apart than usual. Trump seems to be the very self-interested anti-liberal capitalist power that the PMers were warning about. Ironically, his ambiguous use of language and lack of concern for Truth, may be embarrassing for traditional Conservatives. Perhaps arch-liberals and arch-conservatives have some sophistry tactics in common, merely serving different interest groups.If truth is irrelevant, and power is what is to decide, then it is the powerful who make the decisions. And they will do so in their own favour. Hence, the outcome of a PoMo approach is not radical change, but arch conservatism. — Banno
Are you saying objective truth doesn't exist?
— tilda-psychist
Absolutely not. There exists both subjective and objective truth. We can't escape it. In principle, if we had a material world with no subjective observers, then one could argue that objectivity is the only thing that exists. But then that would present a paradox. Similarly, you could be like the Idealist and argue that only the mind exists, and therefore all is subjective.
In my opinion, the important takeaway from post-modernism is the value of being willing to make those distinctions between subjectivity and objectivity, both metaphysically and ontologically. Subjective truth's and objective truth's are also interesting in that they span the concepts found in logic and epistemology as well. — 3017amen
Consider the relationships between Post-Structuralism, Deconstruction, Postmodernism (1966-present.)
What I enjoy reading about is the distinctions between the logic of language and the meaning of words. I think it was Derrida who wanted to deconstruct meaning by making a point about the meanings of words used in a sentence; he called it free play ( see below example). Similarly, I think Nietzsche argued that the very basics of knowledge and language is [not necessarily] not a reliable system of communication. Here are some examples about ambiguity in the deconstruction of a sentence:
Time (noun) flies (verb) like an arrow (adverb clause) = Time passes quickly.
Time (verb) flies (object) like an arrow (adverb clause) = Get out your stopwatch and time the speed of flies as you would time an arrow's flight.
Time flies (noun) like (verb) an arrow (object) = Time flies are fond of arrows (or at least of one particular arrow).
Probably not the best example, but the point is that rational forms of truth are limited to things like the logic of words and language. But truth and fact well up into our lives exceeding such verbal formulation. And Phenomenology, is one example of that (contemporary philosophy). — 3017amen
Are you saying objective truth doesn't exist? — tilda-psychist
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