Although, I haven’t seen many police officers with face tattoos :lol: — Pinprick
Isn't clothing dipped in a semiotics of racialisation anyway? — fdrake
A medal for honesty is on its way you. — unenlightened
We judge strangers on the information we immediately have; first appearance, then accent, possibly smell, demeanour, and so on. — unenlightened
All this is not fact, and it is not ideology, so it is not something one can reasonably argue for or against. — unenlightened
Like being short-sighted - I'd rather not be; I try to compensate; I don't demand miracles.Do you consider this to be good/bad, or does it depend on something else? — Pinprick
but no one bothers getting upset at being judged favorably due to appearance, or whatever else that isn’t actions. — Pinprick
I'm bothered when I trust someone because they 'look honest' and they ain't. — unenlightened
It's not a fact that white faces are safer, and it's not an ideology for most people either. It's an unconscious prejudice that operates in our lives because it is built into our education and experience. Unfortunately it's a comfortable prejudice if your face fits, and many people don't want to see their own prejudice, or how they benefit from others' prejudice. — unenlightened
https://www.facebook.com/pamela.thompson.5030So as a white woman married to a black man and raising a biracial child I’ve had to unlearn a lot of things. I’ve also had to LEARN twice as much. I’ve had to become aware and start to notice things my mind never would have before. My husband, Walter, and I were recently discussing these things and here’s a list of all the things we’ve encountered:
-I have to drive basically anytime we are leaving the Dayton area. We don’t talk about it each time, we just both know that if we are leaving our general “safe” area and heading to smaller town Ohio roads I’m the one driving.
-I have to handle store clerks, returns, getting documents signed, anything with any federal building or administrative work, I get further with any type of “paperwork” thing that needs handled, people listen to me and are much more agreeable than with him.
-The chances that we find a Black or Interracial couple on a greeting card are SLIM. Unless you want to give the same Black Couple card every year, which we have . There are hundreds of white couples to choose from though!
-My husband goes out of his way to be nice and talk to EVERYONE. Not because he’s a people person, but because he has learned that a 6’5 Black man intimidates people and so he overcompensates by being overly friendly so people won’t be afraid of him.
- If Walter is pushing the cart I always have to have my receipt ready when leaving the store.
-None of our neighbors thought we owned our home, multiple neighbors stopped my father and asked him if he was the new landlord for us. Because of course, the old white man must have purchased the home. Not only do we own our home, it’s fully paid off, we have no mortgage and we paid for it BY OURSELVES.
-It took us YEARS to find a church without racist undertones and low key racist members, YEARS!
-When doll shopping our daughter gets 25 white options and 1-2 black or mixed race doll options.
-The same people who stop us daily to say how adorable our daughter is, are the same people who would cross the street if Walter was walking alone.
-We avoid all places with confederate flags.
-If we go to Bob Evans (or any restaurant that caters to “seniors”) too early we are met with a lot of stares, the old racists eat between 4-5pm.
-When Walter goes to a playground with our daughter he constantly stays by her side, if not he gets stares and people wonder what the “big black man” is doing on the park bench.
-Walter is concerned our Black Lives Matter sign by the door will make us a target when he is not home so he asked me to remove it
Now this post isn’t to make people say “oh poor you, I’m so sorry” etc etc. we have a wonderful life and are thankful for it. But...changes need to happen. This is just a small glimpse into the intentional and unintentional racism that happens everywhere, all the time. I want a better world for our daughter so I’m happy that things are changing. I know a lot of you are tired of the protests and tired of the changes and tired of people complaining. Well I’m tired of having to find a different gas station when the one we drive by has two trucks with confederate flags and 6 white boys in sleeveless shirts standing around outside. I’m tired of my husband having to talk to everyone and never complain even when they mess up his order 10,000 times, I’m tired of driving Damn near everywhere, I’m tired of the sick feeling I get when a cop pulls behind us, I’m tired of having to worry anytime my husband has to work OT and leaves in the middle of the night, I’m tired and I’ve only been on this ride 7 years, imagine a lifetime of this!
-edited to Add our Picture because I hope when you see those images on the news of riots and destruction you also remember that the majority of those protesting and fighting for rights are just regular folks like us who want our hearts to be seen. Peaceful loving families who just want a better world.
I haven’t had any particularly negative experiences with black people, and formed a very close friendship with a black person. I even had a black girlfriend at one time. — Pinprick
For example, I don’t believe that if I passed Barack Obama in the street I would have this reaction, as opposed to, say, The Game (rapper). That said, perhaps my “racism” isn’t actually related to race. I mean, the reason why I react this way to a certain look can be attributed to any number of things; the portrayal of black people in media, rap music, etc. Or maybe it’s my fears are warranted in some way? — Pinprick
I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people. — Pinprick
It seems obvious that certain fashion choices are strongly associated with gangs, or “thug” personality types; facial tattoos, bandannas, loud colored clothing, certain hairstyles, etc. After all, there are certainly very few gangsters/thugs who dress like Obama on a regular basis. — Pinprick
Am I a racist? — Pinprick
Sounds like you have some inherent racial bias. Whether you want to admit it or not societal stimuli which imparts negative cultural impressions in this case against black people have surely invaded your subconscious. — Anaxagoras
Regardless of clothing there is an internal racial bias on your part that is subconscious — Anaxagoras
however these internal biases may become apparent based on living in an impoverished urban community. — Anaxagoras
Perhaps you're making the associations of what you see in media with where you live. — Anaxagoras
This is quite offensive. I'm a black man. I'm a professional social worker and I'd be damned if I dress in a way that not only invokes fear but police attention. Again you may have retained some prejudices you haven't really acknowledged and by the above quote, it is quite clear. I am not even sure what "intimidating clothes" looks like considering the style of urban wear are changing. — Anaxagoras
No doubt colored bandannas and tattoos associated with their color may have gang references but that is a gang affiliation thing not an ethnic culture thing. — Anaxagoras
Black Americans or all Africans of the diaspora are not homogeneous nor are we a monolith. — Anaxagoras
Obamas dress style reflects his professionalism and his standard of living. — Anaxagoras
Often times clothing reflects where we live, who were are personality wise, where we are in life. — Anaxagoras
But I think you have some unacknowledged racial prejudices as I've indicated in the above. — Anaxagoras
Black people aren’t only portrayed negatively, and white people are portrayed negatively as well. — Pinprick
How can you be so sure? — Pinprick
I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people. — Pinprick
How do you differentiate between a racial bias and a clothing(?) bias? — Pinprick
I don’t live in an impoverished urban community, — Pinprick
There’s basically no black people where I live — Pinprick
It wasn’t meant to be offensive, but I’m not claiming that only black people do this, or that all black people do this. Well, my example wasn’t strictly about clothing — Pinprick
Right, but gangs are often racially or ethnically grouped. — Pinprick
So, we have specific gangs whose members are of a specific race/ethnicity, and have a specific style. What then should the default assumption be when I see someone of this specific ethnicity/race exhibiting this specific style? — Pinprick
I never insinuated that they were. — Pinprick
Right again, but that’s precisely what I’m doing; judging someone’s personality, intentions, etc. based on their clothing. — Pinprick
Isn’t that what I’m doing in this thread? Exposing my prejudices so that they can be acknowledged and categorized accordingly? — Pinprick
Globally, whites are portrayed favorably. Ask Indians of India. Ask the Japanese and other cultures what pigmentation would they like to be or are encouraged to be? — Anaxagoras
See above....You...said...black people....You said black people....that means me, my friends from college...everyone that identifies as black.......You did not say some, or those in your community, you said black people. — Anaxagoras
Then where does your issues regarding clothing in relation to black people come from? I mean whites dress a certain aggressive way, Asians, Arabs, and other people dress in a certain aggressive way why do you single out black people if you don't live in an impoverished community because I wonder where it comes from? — Anaxagoras
You need to formulate your words differently between black people, some black people, or black people you know or are around. — Anaxagoras
A gang member nothing more. MS-13 is a Salvadorian gang but that is not an accurate representation of people who live in El Salvador. It is a gang nothing more. — Anaxagoras
I'm just giving you a perspective as a black man and how it appears to me. — Anaxagoras
My point is that all races are sometimes portrayed negatively, and all races are sometimes portrayed favorably. — Pinprick
It seems like in light of this, the question is how much negative portrayal is needed to form a racial bias? — Pinprick
So you differentiate between racial and clothing biases based on the use of the term “black people?” — Pinprick
I guess that is my mistake then, but I thought it was clear that I was only referring to a specific type of black person. After this clarification, does your position still stand? — Pinprick
If you’re looking for an explanation, it’s that I associate the type of black person I’ve described with violence/aggression due to him appearing to be a gang member. And that is the case because gang members are violent and have a similar appearance. — Pinprick
BTW, should I be offended or consider you to be racially biased since you didn’t say some white people, Asians, or Arabs? — Pinprick
Ok. I advise you do the same. — Pinprick
Ok, and what should the default reaction be to someone you assume is a gang member? — Pinprick
As far as differentiating I guess because I live in California and exposed to different groups of people, I don’t associate clothing with ethnicity. — Anaxagoras
Then just say gang members. Don’t say “I think black people dress aggressively on purpose” because clearly your categorizing a certain behavior with a clothing type. — Anaxagoras
I mean you sure didn’t mention the Hells Angels of Nazi Skin heads or the Yakuza. — Anaxagoras
I didn’t begin this thread with a generalization, you did. — Anaxagoras
SMH. I mean gang signs for one. Tagging, tattoos, where you’re located at for starters. — Anaxagoras
Really? Not even sombreros or burkas? — Pinprick
I’m speaking specifically about black people who dress like gang members. — Pinprick
I’m willing to make the statement that black gang members have a distinct look that is distinguishable from gang members of other races. — Pinprick
So when I refer to black people within the context of this thread, that is the group I’m referring to. — Pinprick
Therefore, just saying “gang members” isn’t appropriate. — Pinprick
Because I have no known interactions with with either group, or people who appear to belong to either group. — Pinprick
I’m generalizing all black people who appear to be gang members, as gang members. — Pinprick
Doing so seems justified to me, but like I mentioned in an earlier post, others view doing so as racist. — Pinprick
I mean how should I react when I see a black person that looks like a gang member? Should I be cautious and avoid eye contact, etc.? — Pinprick
I acknowledge that sombreros are a Mexican tradition, and Burkas are an Afghanistanian tradition, but I don't look at someone's clothing and say "yeah he dresses like a Mexican" because for one, I don't know their nationality just by observing them and two, more ethnic cultures are not homogenous. — Anaxagoras
There is no gang attire per se, however there are pieces of clothing that can be gang affiliated. I mean, if I sag my pants, or wear a particular brand of shoe that doesn't necessarily mean one is in a gang. — Anaxagoras
That is false. For someone who lives in an area that doesn't have many blacks you're making a lot of assumptions here. — Anaxagoras
I wonder why you're singling out black people period. — Anaxagoras
I mean there are dangerous white bikers who dress a certain way, not sure why you're not mentioning them. My question is why black people in general? You could've picked any other ethnic group. — Anaxagoras
No it is appropriate because all black gang members don't dress alike. I know, I grew up in the lifestyle and have family in that lifestyle. — Anaxagoras
So maybe you should have changed your thread to "black people, fashion, and racism" then. — Anaxagoras
I wonder what this has to do with philosophy because you don't even know how gang members dress to begin with. — Anaxagoras
You really need to do some self-reflection and check your own biases. — Anaxagoras
No. Grow some balls look them in the eye and acknowledge them like a human being. — Anaxagoras
End Thread — Anaxagoras
Because this thread is about my personal experience. I haven’t encountered anyone other than black people that appeared to be gang members. — Pinprick
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