Sure, sorry for responding a day later.I wonder why I am so hard to understand. Can you perhaps let me know what two different things I am talking about and whether or not one of them is the same thing that BC is being consistent about? That will make it easier for me to correct you if you are wrong. — unenlightened
To be nonchalant of other people if they are private business owners because they are more easy targets (while trying similar tactics to the actual object of the protest would be more riskier) sounds strange, when you say it's all about human rights and equality. — ssu
This sounds good.Well let me take it somewhere else, where it might seem less strange. Like Vichy France. — unenlightened
Yes. My options are a) continue as a civilian or b) take part in the resistance or c) try to join the Free French under DeGaulle somehow. If I choose b) and arm myself and start shooting at the first German I see, I'll be an illegal combatant. Hence if I get caught, I can be taken to the nearest forest and shot (with the ease that people can get banned here :snicker: ) and my execution won't be a warcrime.your average boulanger wants to get on with baking and selling bread as best he can, and protests his innocence. — unenlightened
Question: does this apply to children? How about invalids or old people like Bitter Crank? If the resistance decides to plant a bomb using a local six year old boy, Maurice, and an old timer like Bitter Crank posing as his grandfather and both aren't so hot about it, can they be shot as collaborators? Because there's no neutrality! Their dead bodies will surely bring the message home to others that there's no messing around withBut from the point of view of the resistance, there is no neutrality; you are part of the resistance or you are a collaborator. — unenlightened
When Americans here start saying that it is really so bad, then I'll really get worried where the US is going.Of course things are not that bad — unenlightened
Do they come to me and ask: "Bonjour monsieur! We've noticed that there are many Germans shopping in your bakery so if you don't mind, we'll blow them up while they are inside your bakery! Yes, mon ami, you or your employees and your ordinary customers might be killed too, but, it's war, vive La France!"but it is a judgement to be made, how bad they have to be before Joe Public's private property becomes part of the battleground. How many corpses does it take before your property is at the disposal of the resistance? — unenlightened
Yet actually your question is simply when should I take the law into my own hands? — ssu
if the law is that black people are slaves — unenlightened
But isn't that a bit arbitrary? I mean, the Netherlands is tiny with a relatively homogenous culture compared to the USA. Most things are international for us because our neighbours are just a stone's throw away. Moreoever, the right of self determination often stems from a cultural or ethnic group inside national borders; so not very international. — Benkei
I think both approaches should be reconciled with each other. I'm not going to deny individual autonomy but there's a point for me where collective pressure is such that I don't think punishing individuals makes sense unless they actually had power to influence events. So we sentenced Nazi leaders but not Nazi soldiers. It's not as if the BLM movement is actively encouraging riots; compare that to a President who was actively encouraging shooting US civilians. — Benkei
So how we deal with it also becomes a tactical issue. — Benkei
Those that were betrayed and are discriminated against. Enough that in anger they might burn or loot buildings, or even in desperation? Apparently. — Benkei
How do people in Hong Kong protest the Chinese authorities by burning their own property down? Why would the store owners be the culprits there? You genuinely think that Beijing cares about that?not to resist or protest or break the law is immoral and indefensible, and to seek to protect one's property at the expense of those who oppose and resist is doubly indefensible. Thus spake the Lord. — unenlightened
:up:I just don't buy this. — BitconnectCarlos
How do people in Hong Kong protest the Chinese authorities by burning their own property down? Why would the store owners be the culprits there? You genuinely think that Beijing cares about that? — ssu
(Besides, are there huge riots in the US anymore? — ssu
Direct action and using violence has worked. Creating economic losses has surely worked. War works. Someone's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist, as the saying goes. Just remember when you say something is "traditional and justifiable", using that method then is so also for someone pushing an agenda you vehemently oppose.I am defending the principle that damage to property is traditional and justifiable form of protest that has worked to change things — unenlightened
using that method then is so also for someone pushing an agenda you vehemently oppose. — ssu
Today that push for a more just US that would live up to it's values even better could be continued with opposing police brutality and the whole legal system, or what has become of it. Nonviolent means will be far more effective means to do this in a deeply polarized country bursting with guns and which is hell bent on transforming into a police state from a justice state as a huge security apparatus already exists in the country. — ssu
The white man will try to satisfy us with symbolic victories rather than economic equity and real justice. — Malcolm X
An economic depression doesn't suit the monied class. It's a statistical fact that during economic depression and downturns income inequality narrows (meaning the rich aren't getting so much as before). Of course that statistical narrowing of inequality is meaningless as when poor people loose their small income, it matters far more than a millionaires losing 20% of their income.I hope you are right, but your post in general sounds like wishful thinking and fantasy national virtue. I very much fear there will be a blood bath, because economically it will suit the monied class. — unenlightened
Police dispersed protesters in Seattle's Capitol Hill Occupation Protest (CHOP) area and arrested at least 31 people on Wednesday after an emergency order by Mayor Jenny Durkan. Hundreds of police officers worked afterward on cleaning up the area
And are they ineffective?Non-violent protest is preferable if it's effective but violent protests is preferable if nonviolent means are ineffective when pursuing justice. — Benkei
Is it really the race riots? I think the vast amount of legislation ending segregation and Jim Crow was given before the worst riots, which were sparked by the assassination of Martin Luther King. You should tell us why my understanding that the Civil Rights movement was mainly non-violent resistance is wrong.4. the people have a just cause, they get the support they need, change is affected (race riots of the 60s). — Benkei
Hence the focus of the protest has to be focused on real issues and actual legislation, not the "culture war" stupidities.However, if corporate America and half of the politicians think "taking a knee", no longer casting "white people" to voice "black cartoon characters", or no longer having "master bedrooms" and all the other symbolic bullshit happening is "making a difference" then they sure as hell deserve a molotov cocktal through their window at some point. — Benkei
UN sanctions on Iraq and Saddam Hussein's regime are a bit off this topic in my view.Just look up how many kids died in Iraq due to lack of medicine resulting from the sanctions. But that's perfectly fine because it respected property, right? — Benkei
And are they ineffective? — ssu
Is it really the race riots? I think the vast amount of legislation ending segregation and Jim Crow was given before the worst riots, which were sparked by the assassination of Martin Luther King. You should tell us why my understanding that the Civil Rights movement was mainly non-violent resistance is wrong. — ssu
UN sanctions on Iraq and Saddam Hussein's regime are a bit off this topic in my view. — ssu
How many race riots were there during Jim Crow? Oh yeah, quite a lot. There was a relative quiet spell after the war until the early 60s. In the 60s the first riots started in 1963, before the first draft of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act and before the assasination of JF Kennedy. Kennedy initially wanted to stay out of the "civil rights mess" and it was only after the escalation in Birmingham in May 1963, civil rights got on his to-do list. There's a riot that directly influenced the leader of the nation to do something about the underlying causes.
It was Lyndon B. Johnson who had the Act passed in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act wasn't passed until 1965. King was assasinated in 1968. Most of the riots were the year before (the long hot summer). But yes, riots also broke out after his assassination. — Benkei
An economic depression doesn't suit the monied class. — ssu
Usually the best year is when the economic downturn begins. I doubt 2009 was so great.It depends how it's managed. 2008 was a record profit year for many. As is this one. — fdrake
Yes, who cares about economics when we have great literature. — ssu
Suicides on wall street aricle doesn't seem to be about the lower class. — Wheatley
I believe you. :grin:But by all means look up the stats on wealth distribution through the last recession, to check. — unenlightened
Why don't we do that:But by all means look up the stats on wealth distribution through the last recession, to check. — unenlightened
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