What do you mean by "Specific policies are irrelevant, the general constitution of the power structure is what progresses"?This has always been the case. Things either progress, or progress slowly; those are the options. Specific policies are irrelevant, the general constitution of the power structure is what progresses. . — Kev
Public opinion becomes more and more powerful, and more and more people try to get ahead of it for their own little piece of power. And there is no cost to the public that can be directly linked to having the wrong opinion, so there is no self-correction. — Kev
What do you mean by "Specific policies are irrelevant, the general constitution of the power structure is what progresses"? — Number2018
Generally, you are right. Yet, in the UK and the US there is no complete political consensus. — Number2018
Have kids been brainwashed? Yes. Did that all originate from some powerful, globalist cabal? No. — Kev
Could you clarify what does 'progress' mean you?There is no winning option on the right. The culture will continue to change in the direction it always has. Like I said above, there are two options: progress, or slower progress. — Kev
You can look at Boris Johnson defence of Winston Churchill statues or the last Trump’s speech Mount Rushmore speech, he made his 'defence' of American heritage (and Mount Rushmore monuments) one of the main messages of his campaign.Generally, you are right. Yet, in the UK and the US there is no complete political consensus.
— Number2018
There isn't? What about on issues of the past? — Kev
Not odd at all. I define the right as a "Tribalistic fealty to power". A spiritual hierarchy of Immigrants < Unbelievers < Believers < Wealthy Believers < Priests & Anointed Politicians < J-Man & G-Man holds appeal for those with this kind of disposition. — hypericin
You can look at Boris Johnson defence of Winston Churchill statues or the last Trump’s speech Mount Rushmore speech, he made his 'defence' of American heritage (and Mount Rushmore monuments) one of the main messages of his campaign. — Number2018
that the primary mode of power is the totalizing domination of prevailing public opinion — Number2018
On the contrary, I think that we deal with the situation where 'progress' not just causes the intensification of power, but also constantly
reconfigures political and cultural fields, changes the function of institutions, creates new tensions and modes of power, and pushes
the society away from the state of equilibrium. — Number2018
You can look at Boris Johnson defence of Winston Churchill statues or the last Trump’s speech Mount Rushmore speech, he made his 'defence' of American heritage (and Mount Rushmore monuments) one of the main messages of his campaign. — Number2018
I often prefer to just say my piece without defending my positions to the death. Especially since I hold many unpopular opinions. — fishfry
Well, my point was that the consensus that people have in things like "something has to be done to police brutality" is obviously important was responded with the following answer.Oh really people hate the idea of consensus? I never heard of such a thing. Well the swell of social consciousness we are experiencing now is pretty awesome don't you think? I think I would rather be a part of it than oppose the good of consensus. — Athena
Why this obsession with consensus? Consensus is not a political value. It is completely agnostic as to whether things remain terrible, or whether things improve. Actually it's worse: insofar as the material situation is terrible, the call for 'consensus' is a call to stall change, to compromise on it, and to continue the shitty way things are. I mean it when I say: consensus is poison. Forget about it. Nobody wants 'consensus' with a society that kills black people at outrageous rates. Nobody but those brought up on Disney movies want that. Hell, even Disney movies kill their bad guys. Consensus is anti-political crap. — StreetlightX
But where has society moved, as a whole? To the right or to the left? — Kev
I understand your point. My position is that the traditional articulation of the political spectrum does not reflect the current state of affairs. Ideological platforms and programs diverge from the real exercise of power. Also, what you could call 'left politics' necessarily contains a few incompatible tendencies.There is no winning option on the right. The culture will continue to change in the direction it always has. Like I said above, there are two options: progress, or slower progress. — Kev
Eventually you get to a point in history where there would be a consensus. That doesn't mean that moving left isn't the right thing to do, but the power structures that shift at all will always shift left, short of a coup or revolution. — Kev
Official power is given more and more to the people, — Kev
It is not clear if we deal with the people as the autonomous, self-determined source of the social agency.Just to clarify, culture moving to the left is a shift towards accommodating the lowest common denominator, while the power structure moving to the left is decentralizing official power (moving it more and more towards the lowest common denominator). With official power being in the minds of the masses, obviously there is the incentive for any institutions designed for disseminating information to guide those minds. — Kev
This is smart. People do not change their minds on things like this unless it is rooted in a more fundamental change of perspective. — Kev
But without arguing with your judgments of political events, I would suggest that the coordination behind them that you see is organic and not coming from any one entity. — Kev
Firstly, they already own the World. Tell me the time when they or their predecessors didn't own it.Do you think the Davos and Bilderberg set DIDN'T plan to steal the wealth of the world? It just happened by accident? — fishfry
Here I agree with you.I am aware that others think all this just happened by accident. It's no fluke that Harvard turns out a product like this young woman. And neither is the fact that the NYT is suddenly attacking Mt. Rushmore and the Fourth of July and the very founding principles of this great nation, flawed as it may be. It's no accident at all. That is my opinion — fishfry
It’s the Fourth of July, and revolution is in the air. Only in America would it look like this: an elite-sponsored Maoist revolt, couched as a Black liberation movement whose canonical texts are a corporate consultant’s white guilt self-help manual, and a New York Times series rewriting history to explain an election they called wrong.
Matt Taibbi explains it well:
It’s the Fourth of July, and revolution is in the air. Only in America would it look like this: an elite-sponsored Maoist revolt, couched as a Black liberation movement whose canonical texts are a corporate consultant’s white guilt self-help manual, and a New York Times series rewriting history to explain an election they called wrong. — ssu
Well, my point was that the consensus that people have in things like "something has to be done to police brutality" is obviously important was responded with the following answer.
Wellcome to the new PF:
Why this obsession with consensus? Consensus is not a political value. It is completely agnostic as to whether things remain terrible, or whether things improve. Actually it's worse: insofar as the material situation is terrible, the call for 'consensus' is a call to stall change, to compromise on it, and to continue the shitty way things are. I mean it when I say: consensus is poison. Forget about it. Nobody wants 'consensus' with a society that kills black people at outrageous rates. Nobody but those brought up on Disney movies want that. Hell, even Disney movies kill their bad guys. Consensus is anti-political crap. — StreetlightX — ssu
The truth would be more workable when there are more resources than people and the economy is dependent on human labor. — Athena
There are groups of indigenous people who have done well with a different organization of people. They did not develop technology as we have, but they had good lives. — Athena
It is not clear if we deal with the people as the autonomous, self-determined source of the social agency.
Judith Butler proposed that the media has become an essential constitutive part of the people. — Number2018
I do believe there's an interconnected web of very (very!) powerful people in the world who most certainly do get together to plan what they've got coming for the rest of us. — fishfry
Do you honestly think all those billionaires and world leaders DON'T conspire against the rest of us? On what evidence do you assert that claim? I would say that the evidence supports my view of things if you look at the transformation of the world over the past fifty years. Or look at how the establishment handled the banking crisis of 2008 and the banking crisis of 2020? — fishfry
Oh, I'm one of those conservatives who believe in representative democracy, even with it's failures and defects, and believe that changes can happen through consensus, mainly when the at first opposing side finally takes the agenda as it's own too.Wow it appears PF knows nothing about democracy! Are you supporting what was said or agruing against it? — Athena
Add things mentioned here alreadt: de-escalatory tactics, use of other officials than just the police in every occasion, a wide variety of methods that have been seen successful in reality, not emerging from some ideological agenda. Yet I really would not put the issue of the police using excessive force into being part of the culture war. Is wearing a mask and combating the pandemic part of "the culture war"?The place to end police brutality is through cultural means, education and media. — Athena
Why the year 1958?Unfortunately in 1958 we lost our wisdom and focused excessively on the rapid advancement of technology. We replaced our liberal education that was addressing political and social problems through education from the first day a child entered school, with education completely focused on advancing technology. That meant leaving moral training the church, and only brute force to maintain social order because not everyone goes to church nor can believe the biblical ,and those who do, do not agree on God's truth nor do they have a better way of resolving religious differences than killing people who disagree with them. This change in education has serious, social, economic, and political ramifications. — Athena
Why the year 1958? — ssu
We replaced our liberal education that was addressing political and social problems through education from the first day a child entered school, — Athena
When people refer to Maoist or Marxist or Nazi or whatever, they should really have the actual meaning of the word and use it as a pejorative adjectives. — ssu
There are only two ways to have social order, culture or authority over the people. — Athena
I read Chomsky a while ago. Please correct me if I misunderstand or misinterpreted him. — Number2018
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