Is Johnson, the UK prime minister, in the pocket of the Russians? He and his conservative colleagues have been hobnobbing with oligarchs for years and when he won the UK election in December, he went for a long weekend party at the house of an oligarch who used to be an officer in the KGB, in Italy to celebrate.

Is Johnson, the UK prime minister, in the pocket of the Russians? — Punshhh

His name is Boris, so obviously.

Is there any Russian meddling in your part of the world and what are we going to do about it? — Punshhh

Lol.

There's even a term in political theory named after the meddling in my country called Finlandization: the process by which one powerful country makes a smaller neighboring country abide by the former's foreign policy rules, while allowing it to keep its nominal independence and its own political system. As a neighboring small western country, it's obvious that the Soviets and now Russians want to keep taps on us.

With this history of Russian meddling, it is easy to see the long term play that Russia has continued well after the fall of the Soviet Union. As a career spy and the former director of the FSB, Putin has made the intelligence services and Active Measures (aktivnye meropriyatiya) a cornerstone of Russia foreign policy and has well understood that in a post-truth World, blatant attacks will go unpunished.

Is Johnson, the UK prime minister, in the pocket of the Russians? — Punshhh

Not remotely. Even in the US administration other people than Trump aren't in pocket of the Russians. Do notice that the people that were in the pockets of the Russians did go to jail in the US only to be let free by Trump now.

You don't have to be in the Mafia's s pocket to know what's good for you.

Yes, I can imagine that Russia exerts pressure on the governance of Finland.

It is curious though in the UK that the obvious goal of Putin in influencing UK politics is to divide it from Europe and break up the Union of the United Kingdom. All part of his anti EU strategy. And that this strategy alines with the goal of the UK government, which is to leave the EU, to snub the EU in the process and inadvertently break up the United Kingdom.

Boris and Putin have the same goals, it's like he is a puppet.

Is there any Russian meddling in your part of the world and what are we going to do about it? — Punshhh

Can you say Monroe Doctrine? Meddling as practice is perhaps the world's third oldest profession. The question, "Is there...?" implies that there might not be - a mistake. The presumption is that the Russians do all kinds of things. The questions, then, aren't if, but what, where, and what do we do about it.

There do seem to be profound differences between East and West in these regards. And based on these differences, we, imo, correctly denominate this East in question as evil. But the lesson we have not learned, that Trump is teaching us anew, is that you don't negotiate with evil. You don't give it air or space or food, and where possible you kill it at first sight.

Is Johnson, the UK prime minister, in the pocket of the Russians? — Punshhh

Boris and Putin have the same goals, it's like he is a puppet. — Punshhh

I don't think they have the same goals. BJ is an opportunist. If there's a personal advantage to be had, he will agree to anything to anybody. That is his modus operandi. I would be extremely shocked to discover he'd avoided agreeing to something undesirable with Dobby, even if he hoped he wouldn't have to deliver. But it being the sort of thing he'd do don't make it so.

what are we going to do about it? — Punshhh

The political mood now is limited to ever-more targeted sanctions at the most punitive end to ending sanctions entirely at the most fawning end, when we should be talking about Russia being persona non grata in the West, politically, economically, residentially, and in the media. Booting them out of the G8 was a start. They should be booed off the world stage now altogether.

I also think that propaganda within one's own borders from actors working on behalf of a state that is a major national security threat should be taken seriously. Currently we just shrug it off, as we've shrugged off everything Russia has done for decades. It is itself a national security threat and should be treated as such. That includes the media, traditional and social.

It seems to me that the threat of “Russian interference” is largely overblown. If we can avoid this threat by not watching RT or not going on twitter, then the problem appears minuscule.

You could say basically the same thing about marxist sjw types. Are they a threat?

Its generally bad to have an enemy working against you, and generally bad to ignore any given attack vector an enemy is using.

We live in a global economy and a closely integrated world political system, so perhaps it is no surprise that some countries wish to influence the political outcomes of another country.

So what constitutes 'meddling' and what is intrinsically wrong with it?

It is curious though in the UK that the obvious goal of Putin in influencing UK politics is to divide it from Europe and break up the Union of the United Kingdom. All part of his anti EU strategy. — Punshhh

What is curious about this?

The logic is very simple: Russia is militarily stronger than any individual European country and even economically larger than most of the smalller European countries. In bilateral negotiations it simply rules, but confronted with EU, it is negotiating with a far larger entity.

The less there is integration in Europe, the better for Russia. If the US decides that NATO can go the way as CENTO and SEATO, Putin's Russia would be the true victor. And lastly, let's remember that Putin needs the threat of the US and the West. It's the basic reason that he can push for centralized power and for huge defence and security establishment. In Russian military doctrine the threat of NATO enlargement is the 1. threat, then come other threats and I think at number 9. or 10. international terrorism.

And that this strategy alines with the goal of the UK government, which is to leave the EU, to snub the EU in the process and inadvertently break up the United Kingdom. — Punshhh

Boris doesn't want the UK to dissolve. And old school Thatcherites don't want to break ties with Continental Europe and are all for NATO, for example. The federalist agenda is what they absolutely don't like. Simply put it: the federalist cause is driven by Germany and France and there's no place for the UK in that equation. That's the British problem: Britain is big enough and separate enough both physically and historically from the continent, that they don't posses a genuine drive for a unified Europe. UK isn't ruled by the Angevins anymore.

Everyone is meddling. When you know that as a starting point there is not much to be morally upset about every time it happens. The Russians, the Americans, the Chinese and any other decent sized power are scrambling to extend their influence and we should just be content if they refrain from using outright violence to obtain their goals.

Of course the Russians try to influence elections, just like the Americans do all over the world. Is that any worse than having filthy rich oligarchs from inside your own country manipulating elections? In any case, we concede that the electorate is not capable of rational choice but are like clay in the hands of money men. That in itself is what should bother us, and not the nationality of the money.

Don’t blame the Russians for learning to play the game the West already knows so well. Blame the system that allows it to happen. Blame the long tradition of money and power and electoral manipulation.

Maybe in a way it’s good that the Russians are doing it. We seem to be blind to our domestic meddlers, but maybe now the scales can fall from our eyes we can clearly see the ugly face of manipulation

Blame the system that allows it to happen. Blame the long tradition of money and power and electoral manipulation. — Congau

That's what we are doing. The outrage is against domestic politicians who let it happen, or even allegedly are willingly involved. The UK report made it clear that the government actively avoided looking into it, and Boris has refused any kind of investigation.

Everyone is meddling. — Congau

And usually that "meddling" is called diplomacy and done by an ambassador. This "meddling" is usually done openly with a straightforward agenda which normally is things like strengthening political and economic ties. Not by creating fake accounts in social media and with the objective just to create polarization. Creating polarization is something that the Russians do.

Of course the Russians try to influence elections, just like the Americans do all over the world. — Congau

Sure, Americans have had this ideas like promoting democracy, for example with Reagan's National Endowment for Democracy (NED), and especially during the Cold War were afraid of political parties that reeked socialist. But in truth the US is quite open about these issues. Especially if it is overtly hostile towards some countries: Iran, North Korea, Syria and prior Libya, Nicaragua etc.

s that any worse than having filthy rich oligarchs from inside your own country manipulating elections? I — Congau

Oligarchs typically want something from the government: either protection for their position or simply favorable treatment. But they rarely if ever take the position of their objective being "let's make the political situation worse in the country so that it cannot operate well abroad".

Don’t blame the Russians for learning to play the game the West already knows so well. Blame the system that allows it to happen. Blame the long tradition of money and power and electoral manipulation. — Congau

Remember that the objective is to create an environment where people in the West don't trust their governments at all. Healthy criticism of our system can go too far you know.

Maybe in a way it’s good that the Russians are doing it. We seem to be blind to our domestic meddlers, but maybe now the scales can fall from our eyes we can clearly see the ugly face of manipulation — Congau

The Russians definately want people in the West to see the elites and ruling political parties as "domestic meddlers" that do everything for just their own personal wealth and power. As if no political party or entity can do or has everything something for the greater good. The more we don't trust anything in our form of government, the better are the objectives of the Russian active measures fulfilled.

Meddling means espionage and manipulation, and all countries engage in those activities, especially the big powers. Do you think that it doesn’t exist just because those moralizing Western powers don’t like talking about it? What makes you think that because they are open about something, they are open about everything? Every once in a while, a scandal emerges and naïve believers in their government think it is an exception. Remember how it was revealed that even the German chancellor had been spied on by the Americans. If that can happen to a friendly government, it is more than likely that it happens to the many countries the US has a strained relationship with, not just its outright enemies.

The Russians apparently wanted Trump to get elected and if you say his election made the political situation worse, I’d say you are right. But if we assume that not all Americans were manipulated by the Russians, they must have brought that bad situation on themselves, don’t you think?

Healthy criticism of our system can go too far you know. — ssu

That’s a very dangerous comment if you believe in free speech. No, healthy criticism can ever go too far. If you limit free speech to only what you think is useful for the country, next thing you know the government will start controlling information claiming public utility.

Meddling means espionage and manipulation, and all countries engage in those activities — Congau

So how has Denmark meddled in other countries domestic policies? Or Iceland? Or Jamaica?

What makes you think that because they are open about something, they are open about everything? — Congau

Because the US is totally incapable of keeping secrets for a longer time. Their policies are well known especially on the level of

Remember how it was revealed that even the German chancellor had been spied on by the Americans. — Congau

You shouldn't confuse spying to active measures. It's one thing that countries spy on each other, it's another thing to go actively to meddle in elections. Great Powers do it of course, some like France especially in the politics of their former colonies, but usually the vast majority is open, public and done by diplomats.

The Russians apparently wanted Trump to get elected and if you say his election made the political situation worse, I’d say you are right. — Congau

This is the thing that many Americans simply cannot fathom. That yes, Russians aided Trump, but so did they aid JFK and obviously as we had the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK wasn't a Russian stooge. The other thing nearly impossible to understand seems that Trump indeed got elected (as Hillary was a horribly bad candidate), and it wasn't the Russians that created the polarized environment that the US has. That Americans have done themselves. Let's see what Putin had on Trump, but Trump duly seems like a willing agent of Russia, if you just listen to him in the famous press briefing in Helsinki where he next to Putin says he believes more Putin than his own intelligence services.

. No, healthy criticism can ever go too far — Congau

Yes it can, and then it becomes simply unhealthy...

German Red Army Fraction terrorists were hell bent on that West Germany was totally similar to Nazi Germany and they had to fight it and their actions would light the turmoil of a proletariat revolution in West Germany in the 1970's. Talk about societal criticism.

Now that kind of criticism is extreme, but criticism can easily create also apathy and withdrawal, not engagement and trying to improve things.

Start watching/getting involved in stuff like this:

and meddle in piece-of-shit putin's affairs.

Boris doesn't want the UK to dissolve.

Yes, but because he is so incompetent that he will cause the break up of the UK. If you watch him campaigning in Scotland today, whenever he opens his mouth he insults them and drives them towards independence.

Putin is laughing at him and the stupidity of the British people who are doing his work for him.

So how has Denmark meddled in other countries domestic policies? Or Iceland? — ssu

Denmark works for the interest of ethnic Danes inside Germany. Iceland has lobbied to secure its fishing right with the EU. Deals have been made and during a negotiation you can’t expect everything to be in the open. No doubt, secret agreements have been made, but you and I would know about them, since they are, well, secrets.

the US is totally incapable of keeping secrets for a longer time. Their policies are well known especially on the level of — ssu

Why do you think secrets are always revealed? Sometimes historians dig up and reveal unknown events that happened many decades ago. What happened in the Bay of Pigs, what led to Hiroshima? Old secrets are revealed, but about some historical events we will never know the truth.

the vast majority is open, public and done by diplomats. — ssu

How do you know that? Of course it’s impossible to prove a negative. You can never say for sure that X doesn’t exist, especially when X is a secret.

German Red Army Fraction terrorists were hell bent on that West Germany was totally similar to Nazi Germany and they had to fight it and their actions would light the turmoil of a proletariat revolution in West Germany in the 1970's. Talk about societal criticism. — ssu

I’m not saying that all criticism is good. In fact, I would rather prefer that everyone who disagreed with me would shut. A conservative world view is, in my opinion, never healthy for society, just as the RAF criticism was unhealthy, but since I believe that the principle of free speech is healthy, I just have to accept it all. It would be much more unhealthy for society to clamp down on it.

Denmark works for the interest of ethnic Danes inside Germany. — Congau

And you think Denmark interferes in German elections?

Iceland has lobbied to secure its fishing right with the EU. — Congau

And has this lobbying raised complaints in the EU?

I’m not saying that all criticism is good. — Congau

but since I believe that the principle of free speech is healthy, I just have to accept it all. — Congau

I think freedom of speach is very important and the society has to be robust enough to hear even crazy talk. Yet as the saying goes, democracy demands a lot from it's members. Perhaps the problem is that many are ignorant and we take too many things as granted. Still, I believe at least at my fellow citizens to have enough knowledge and understanding to elect politicians that don't destroy our democracy, even if many of them don't agree with me.