Explain how an ultimate "issue" makes an existential difference one way or another to proximate beings like us.But it is a philosophical question by dint of being an existential issue for all humanity. — Punshhh
I'm persuaded by Camus that such "existential issues" are Absurd and thereby should not be allowed to distract us from living on human terms. I contemplate the CMB from time to time - those are occasions when I imagine myself, like Sisyphus, happy.This heart within me I can feel, and I judge that it exists. This world I can touch, and I likewise judge that it exists. There ends all my knowledge, and the rest is construction.
[ ... ]
I don’t know whether this world has a meaning that transcends it. But I know that I cannot know that meaning and that it is impossible for me just now to know it. What can a meaning outside my condition mean to me? I can understand only in human terms. What I touch, what resists me — that I understand. — Albert Camus
There is lived experience, events and agency involved. As such a theist is engaged in real/lived events, things inaccessible to the intellect, or intellectual analysis, because this analysis is limited, as the intellect is limited. — Punshhh
Subjective truth v. objective truth. And your answer... ? — 3017amen
The difference lies in what I (can) make of it. — tim wood
You are basically saying the difference between your lack of ability to use reason to explain your own existence only matters to you yourself.
And so you must be subordinating Objectivity in favor of Subjectivity. — 3017amen
The difference lies in what I (can) make of it. — tim wood
Think of it this way, your own existence is "unreasoned". So what's the difference?
— 3017amen
The difference lies in what I (can) make of it. — tim wood
Yes, and the uses to which I put that understanding."The difference lies in what I (can) make of it."
What does "what I can make of it" mean? Does it mean, how you come to understand something? — 3017amen
In other words Tim, are you suggesting that your own understanding is more important than someone else's understanding? — 3017amen
What do you mean by more important? If you're the building inspector for a town and I'm some clown who thinks he can plumb and do the electrical work in his own home himself - not actually knowing code or even how - then yes, your understanding is more important than mine. Is that what you meant? — tim wood
how do you get to have better understanding? — 3017amen
By application and process. — tim wood
No. Knowledge of - which is in practical terms notoriously not experience. (Else why would anyone go the trouble of actually getting laid?) And no. Having experiences is just having experiences - understanding something different. Indeed, practice is that people who have had experiences often go to people who have not had those experiences in an effort to try to understand them. And this just the words. We'll get further faster and more directly if you get to the substance.So, by your 'application and process' does that translate into experience? And would that suggest someone who has a subjective religious experience has a deeper understanding than one who has not had such experience? — 3017amen
You, not me. Clearly and obviously it all depends on lots of things, here undetermined.One reason that is such a critical question is because you stated that it is important for you yourself, to have understanding. That implies you feel that your own truth and understanding, is indeed more important than someone else's. — 3017amen
Meaningless question, or at least unanswerable, until the terms are nailed down on all corners. And, sometimes.Or in the alternative, you must be thinking that someone else's truth and/or understanding is just as important to them, as it is likewise to you. So help me out, which is it? Can both be true? — 3017amen
Having experiences is just having experiences - understanding something different. Indeed, practice is that people who have had experiences often go to people who have not had those experiences in an effort to try to understand them. And this just the words. We'll get further faster and more directly if you get to the substance. — tim wood
You, not me. Clearly and obviously it all depends on lots of things, here undetermined. — tim wood
Or in the alternative, you must be thinking that someone else's truth and/or understanding is just as important to them, as it is likewise to you. So help me out, which is it? Can both be true?
— 3017amen
Meaningless question, or at least unanswerable, until the terms are nailed down on all corners. And, sometimes. — tim wood
Understanding I take to be a species of translation. Experience can inform the accuracy of the translation, and inasmuch as understanding is both an itself and an abstraction, it seems to me the granularity of the experience can add - data, if you will - to understanding.Great. Let's look at how you yourself obtain your own understanding then.
How does your experiences effect your understanding about something? — 3017amen
What causes you to ask this. It's not part of any thought of mine. And I've asked you what "more important" means - which you've ignored. Are we back to wriggling and wroggleing?I'm not following you Tim. Are you now saying that my understanding is more important than yours? — 3017amen
Looks like we are. This question in this context is both incoherent and abusive. Get back on the path.Really? Who's understanding is more important, yours or mine? — 3017amen
Like I have certain interests and concerns (I value my friendships, I enjoy Japanese literature, and I have certain political views about society) What difference would be done to that if someone or something has an opinion on what I should do with my life, unless I was blackmailed into it. It's like as if someone's parents told their kids what to be when they grow up, why should you care about what they say? — Saphsin
Understanding I take to be a species of translation. Experience can inform the accuracy of the translation, and inasmuch as understanding is both an itself and an abstraction, it seems to me the granularity of the experience can add - data, if you will - to understanding. — tim wood
This question in this context is both incoherent and abusive. Get back on the path. — tim wood
and the uses to which I put that understanding.
— tim wood — 3017amen
I don't know about "such an" experience. And I have noted that experience and understanding are not the same thing. By abstraction, I mean that on one side, understanding is a thing-in-itself, on the other, about something that it itself is not. In this latter sense an abstraction. "Metaphysical phenomenon" I take to be incoherent word-salad - unless you can educate.Nice. Is having such an experience some sort of subjective understanding ? And what do you mean by abstraction, is that like metaphysical phenomena? — 3017amen
I keep asking you for clarity because I do not know either what you mean or what your words mean. You ignore the request but keep using the words - and that's abusive. And I strongly suspect you do not know what they mean either. What do you suppose truth is? And what would a subjective truth be?and the uses to which I put that understanding.
— tim wood
— 3017amen
So I'm getting confused, is your own understanding a subjective truth? — 3017amen
don't know about "such an" experience. And I have noted that experience and understanding are not the same thing. By abstraction, I mean that on one side, understanding is a thing-in-itself, on the other, about something that it itself is not. In this latter sense an abstraction. "Metaphysical phenomenon" I take to be incoherent word-salad - unless you can educate. — tim wood
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