This is from the CDC website

"As of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed >>>>and probable cases and deaths<<<<<<. ( aka fluff numbers) This change was made to reflect an interim COVID-19 position statementpdf iconexternal icon issued by the Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists on April 5, 2020. The position statement included a case definition and made COVID-19 a nationally notifiable disease. Nationally notifiable disease cases are voluntarily reported to CDC by jurisdictions.

A confirmed case or death is defined by meeting confirmatory laboratory evidence for COVID-19.

A probable case or death is defined by one of the following:

>>>>>Meeting clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19<<<<

>>>>>Meeting presumptive laboratory evidence AND either clinical criteria OR epidemiologic evidence<<<<

>>>>Meeting vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19<<<<

.(meaning fluff to make it look worse then it actually is)

Number of Jurisdictions Reporting

There are currently >>>>60 U.S.-affiliated jurisdictions reporting cases of COVID-19. This includes the 50 states; the District of Columbia; New York City, the U.S. territories of American Samoa, Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S Virgin Islands; and three independent countries in compacts of free association with the United States (Federated States of Micronesia, Republic of the Marshall Islands, and Republic of Palau).<<<<<<

So this means that when they say "death toll in the US" they mean all the fluff numbers mixed in AND like 1/3% of the world's land masses not just the 50 States that you think they mean when they say "US" . And let's not forget how there are literally dozens of other things that kill 10 times as many people annually that aren't even talked about on the news

Old and chronically ill people die every year from flu and pneumonia. In your lifetime has any country ever looked down or had such govt and media hysteria over this natural fact of life?
The 2009 influenza resulted in no lockdown.
Those who are capable of clear thinking and how politics works can make their own conclusions.
And it seems clear all these so called philosophers really dont think for themselves but are deferring to fear porn.
You want to curtail liberty and bow to govt because of an imaginary danger!?
Wow! The paranoia of the insecure.

@MAYAEL Most folks are so invested in corona that even when you show them clear evidence from various official sources they still dont click that all the "statistics"
are indeed fluff and wildly inflated.
The science is similiarily bogus,with many doctors saying the lockdown is a spurious response.
As for the danger. Well it depends if one cowers from a cold.
It's amazing to see so many people fearful of govt disinformation.

And what about the vulnerable groups in our populations? You know those transplant patients on immunosuppressants, those with cystic fibrosis, emphysema those with underlying health conditions which will seriously compromise their response to Covid etc etc? Or the excess deaths due to other conditions like cancer while the hospitals are full of Covid patients?

These people can be grouped under the heading of vulnerable groups. In the UK, this group is about 2 million, in a population of 67 million. Should we just forget about them, for some other reason?

@Punshhh In previous years were these people forgotten or locked away as a rule?

And let's not forget how there are literally dozens of other things that kill 10 times as many people annually — MAYAEL

Let's see. Covid-19 has been killing people in America for about five months now, despite extreme cautionary measures of periods of shut down and physical distancing laws. Care to list a dozen or two of those dozens of other things which have a 10 times higher annual death rate?

Well honestly I feel like it won't do anything other then take up my time because your blindly assuming that the media is true and so with a food eater mentality like that there's no real point in me wasting my time.

So when you tell me that hardly anyone dies from Corona virus, while a multitude of different competing media sources are telling me the very opposite, I'm supposed to believe you instead?

@Metaphysician Undercover You could try to assess the situation with your own personal.experience . what makes you think the media are honest and correct in its reporting?

No no no see you are not understanding what im saying.

Im not tellibg you to believe me and not them

Im saying STOP believing.

As I said, there is a multitude of different, competing media sources reporting roughly the same thing. I could add to that, the fact that the various levels of government are taking very extreme measures. Why would I believe that all these different institutions, and organizations are conspiring to give poor peons like me such radically false information? How does the government profit by shutting down business practices and paying billions in aid? Or do you think that the media has been able to mislead the governments as well?

Im saying STOP believing. — MAYAEL

I am to my very core, a skeptic. But I will never stop believing that it's a mistake to step in front of a fast moving fright train. If you think you might convince me otherwise, you're welcome to try. In the meantime, I do not want to propagate a deadly virus, so you can perform your acts of persuasion from a safe distance.

You could try to assess the situation with your own personal.experience . — Asif

I actually work in the emergency department and I can tell you people are dying and it will only get worse. If you don't give a shit about yourself, give a shit about those who it may kill

@Anaxagoras Yes people die in emergency depts.
How old were they? Preexisting conditions? How many?
Proof of cause of death?
There are multiple verified reports of hospitals being empty and many reports of inaccurate death certificates and bogus diagnosis.
To say nothing of the non entity that is germ theory.
Asymptomatic carriers! Yep and grass is pink.
I know what I see with my own eyes and hear. Dont need some misinformed medic to get emotional. Your not the only source that works in a hospital.

@Metaphysician Undercover Perhaps you also believe Saddam Hussein had WMDs and that govts never lie or institute false flags and hoaxes for monetary purposes.
The corporations and mega wealthy elite surely gained by this whole fiasco? Debt and taxation and govt intervention
is now higher,and thstvis what was wanted right from the start.
It's funny folks believe chynah and other states are corrupt and issue disinformation but never there own just because the word democracy is bandied about.
The US elite are just as corrupt and worse than the chinese elite. Pearl harbour gulf of tomkin WMDs the banking system Edward Snowden???

Yes people die in emergency depts. — Asif

That's besides the point. People die everyday, but it doesn't negate the fact that we ought to take precaution.

How old were they? — Asif

There are a variety of affected ages.

Preexisting conditions? — Asif

Some of the ones I've encountered yes, some no. For example a 13 year-old girl died from Covid-19 and went into respiratory distress.

How many? — Asif

How many what, positives?

There are multiple verified reports of hospitals being empty and many reports of inaccurate death certificates and bogus diagnosis. — Asif

Proof?

I know what I see with my own eyes and hear. Dont need some misinformed medic to get emotional. Your not the only source that works in a hospital. — Asif

I personally don't care what you think just understand the consequences.

@Anaxagoras How many deaths in your place of work? Listen,there is zero proof of covid 19. The test are bogus. Even by your own medical science covid has not fulfilled any of kochs postulates. To say nothing that germ theory is an unproven totally inaccurate assertion.
The same proof you give from your personal experience I have from others who work in hospitals. Or is only your experience valid?
Honest or knowledgable medics will admit establishing a cause of death is many times fraught with misdiagnosis.
I personally equally do not care for your misinformed fear porn. And the only consequences I see are public fear due to irresponsible information from ill informed people who worship the media and cannot think rationally.

How many deaths in your place of work? — Asif

See for yourself, this is a rough estimate for the week. The other indicates the amount of positives to deaths in Los Angeles County.

Listen,there is zero proof of covid 19. — Asif

Not sure how there isn't. If what you say is true then what are we finding in our labs when we do Covid swabs? The above is hard facts that Covid exists.

The test are bogus. — Asif

Where is your proof? Where is your documented proof that contradicts scientists from across the world?

Or is only your experience valid? — Asif

I've already posted the facts...The above pics were just taken from my hospital desk those are the facts.

@Anaxagoras The pics you sent are not opening.
Write the stats if you wish.
You obviously have no idea of the science of kochs postulates or the validity of germ theory. Your swabs and tests are detecting natural biologocial inflammation which everyone has to some degree. But the tests are arbitrary and do not detect flu,they detect only inflammation. I could probably test positive if I had a tough workout at the gym.
Asymptomatic disease is an affront to human rationality.
The CDC and many scientists admit false positives and the dubious nature of the tests.
Fauci wrote an article in the Lancet saying covid wasnt much different to the flu. Go google many scientists saying the dangers and lockdown are spurious.
Your conflating facts with manipulated stats and bogus science.
You personally how many covid deaths you witnessed?

You obviously have no idea of the science of kochs postulates or the validity of germ theory. — Asif

Never heard of it.

Your swabs and tests are detecting natural biologocial inflammation which everyone has to some degree. — Asif

Apparently you know jack shit what the swabs test for.....The most common tests (including the ones used at my hospital) are called PCR assay or polymerase chain reaction which is a specific type of nucleic acid test. This test in the labs look for specific Coronavirus genetic material. When you get exposed to Covid-19 it replicates in the upper respiratory tract hence is why you have the 6-inch nasal swab.

. But the tests are arbitrary and do not detect flu,they detect only inflammation. I could probably test positive if I had a tough workout at the gym. — Asif

Wrong. First, see above post. Second, we tend to look at symptoms first such as cough, shortness of breathe, dizziness, diarrhea, vomiting etc. Third, regarding false negatives one may test negative however this may suggest that they could in fact be in the early stages of the virus. However to be sure this is why these tests are done. If serious symptoms progress this is why we conduct CT scans or X-rays to look at the lungs. If we suspect something funny there we place you in the category of PUI or Patient Under Investigation and then we isolate you until results comeback. But all in all, you're clearly wrong.

The CDC and many scientists admit false positives and the dubious nature of the tests. — Asif

According to the University of Texas Cancer Center:

"The chances of a false negative at MD Anderson in a symptomatic patient due to a COVID-19 infection are very low, provided the lab receives a good-quality specimen.

MD Anderson takes several measures to ensure a low false-negative rate. First, we use a dedicated team of nurses to collect swabs, which ensures a high-quality specimen is collected every time. Second, the tests used in our laboratory have undergone a verification process to confirm that they perform as expected. And finally, we are tracking when repeat tests are positive on individuals who had previously tested negative.

To date, this last scenario has occurred in less than 1% of our tests. And, in all cases, the time between the negative and positive test results was more than 72 hours, opening up the possibility for infection to have occurred between the two tests’ administration."

Source: https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwise/is-covid-19-coronavirus-testing-accurate-and-9-more-things-to-know-about-covid-19-nasal-swab-testing.h00-159381945.html#:~:text=It's%20called%20a%20%E2%80%9CPCR%20assay,small%20amounts%20of%20the%20coronavirus.

Mind you, this institute conducts the same test as my hospital.

Fauci wrote an article in the Lancet saying covid wasnt much different to the flu. — Asif

According to the CDC there are some similarities however there are some significant differences:

"While COVID-19 and flu viruses are thought to spread in similar ways, COVID-19 is more contagious among certain populations and age groups than flu. Also, COVID-19 has been observed to have more superspreading events than flu. This means the virus that causes COVID-19 can quickly and easily spread to a lot of people and result in continuous spreading among people as time progresses."

Source:https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm#:~:text=For%20both%20COVID%2D19,is%20still%20under%20investigation.


With Flu, some people can recover in to less than two weeks. With Covid-19 there are longstanding effects such as blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart, legs or brain. also in children, they can develop School-aged children infected with COVID-19 are at higher risk of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C), a rare but severe complication of COVID-19.

The pics you sent are not opening. — Asif

Ok. In one picture depicted our In-House (positive) patients which was 37

In-house patients under investigation: 4

Overall tested positive: 1,368

Total Tested Overall: 6,664

Patient Cases in Los Angeles County

Confirmed: 206,761

Deaths: 4,967

Perhaps you also believe Saddam Hussein had WMDs — Asif

This was not claimed by the media, it was claimed by one specific US government agency..

It's funny folks believe chynah and other states are corrupt and issue disinformation but never there own just because the word democracy is bandied about. — Asif

Sorry to disillusion you Asif, but I'm not one of those "folks" you refer to here. I'll tell you though, you seem to have a misunderstanding of the relationship between the various elements of media, and the government, in a democratic state. Do you assume that they work together, as one entity, with the same goal?

The US elite are just as corrupt and worse than the chinese elite. — Asif

You started talking about falsity in the media concerning Covid-19. I implied that the government corroborates the media. You haven't established the required relationship between the "wealthy elite" who gained from this, and the government, to support your claims.

@Anaxagoras Your not answering a basic point. How many deaths from covid in Your hospital?
You can take excerpts from any science literature,there isnt any consensus and many scientists say the exact opposite.
You havent heard of germ theory.or kochs postulates and yet you claim you understand swab testing and viruses.
And the PCR assay! Do you even know how that works and the criticisms that can be levied at it?
So which age groups does it differ from the common.flu?

@Metaphysician Undercover The wealthy elite are the government and its subsidiaries. It's not one entity but they have shared goals and there are winners and losers hence the infighting between Republicans and the fighting with democrats and vice versa. The mass media though varied on the surface have shared political values and jostle with each other and get behind whichever of the two parties they are affiliated with.
The extent of political bias and fake reporting in the mass media is blatantly obvious. Both rich Democrats and Republicans have gained hugely from this hoax in terms of wealth and political possibilities. It is election year.
Democratic state? Ah,you mean plutocracy. You think stock market reporting is accurate and honest with no agenda for the wealthy?

Your not answering a basic point. How many deaths from covid in Your hospital? — Asif

I cannot list the deaths as the numbers are factored into Los Angeles County statistics. I know for sure from the shifts I've worked there were at least 6 deaths in the Emergency department alone. As far as statistics that would be something I'd have to access from our administration which would be unlikely since I cannot access those numbers as a simple employee.

Your hospital? — Asif

Yes my hospital which was the intent of mine when I tried posting the pictures. It's on every screen saver in my hospital as far as the statistics concerning positive patients, patients under investigation, and those being admitted.

You can take excerpts from any science literature,there isnt any consensus and many scientists say the exact opposite. — Asif

Where is your proof? You sound like Trump saying "there are many scientists" when you haven't even provided anything to substantiate your views. Saying stuff like "look it up" when you cannot even substantiate what you've postulated.

You havent heard of germ theory.or kochs postulates and yet you claim you understand swab testing and viruses. — Asif

I've clearly explained how SWABS worked....like intimately and have even listed verifiable links just in case you wanted more understanding.

And the PCR assay! Do you even know how that works and the criticisms that can be levied at it? — Asif

I do know how it works thus why I explained it. Again you're just appearing to just simply talking out of your ass. I mean after all you thought you could be tested positive for simply exercising that is how I know you're into junk science and don't know shit about Covid-19 testing. I'm clearly wasting my time with you. I suggest @Metaphysician Undercover doesn't either.

@Anaxagoras So basically 6 deaths over what period? Since march? Where they proven from covid or underlying health issues. What ages? And you see that an employee cannot access statistics. Nothing to see there...
All stats relevant to Your experience are unavailable.
So basically you follow the govt media driven narrative despite witnessing how many deaths???
You grasp on the science is derivative quoting literature is not understanding and there are many medical opinions to the contrary. Your trump reference is just blah. As if the medical industry isnt involved in the same alternative facts as trump.
You also ignored my points on theory,kochs postulates and strawmanned my point on inflammation.
Its workers like you who dont ask critical questions and spread fear who have helped this hoax. Your govt loves your compliance and timidity.
Remember the pictures from wuhan of people dropping dead in the street foaming at the mouth? Doubtless propoganda and lies. What makes you think the US doesnt work exactly the same way?
How many doctors and medical staff you personally know who have died of covid? There is a clue there for you...

Listen,there is zero proof of covid 19. The test are bogus. Even by your own medical science covid has not fulfilled any of kochs postulates. To say nothing that germ theory is an unproven totally inaccurate assertion. [...] — Asif

wtf? :D

@jorndoe Go have a look at the stats for the countries surrounding china. And Australia and NZ. Some of those countries have under a few hundred "covid" deaths.
Why the difference? You can wtf all you want. The worldwide stats have no rhyme nor reason and outside the media most people have no direct evidence of people dying any more than any other year.

a) I believe that the vitriolic juxtaposition and the divisive polarization would also continue under a Hillary Clinton presidency. This isn't just about Trump, even if he makes things worse. If you think how little the Hillary scandals were, the missing emails or Benghazi, how about then a scandal like Jeffrey Epstein, a sex ring organizer with ties to the ex-president husband of the sitting president getting killed in prison when on suicide watch? Just one example. — ssu

Agreed to a certain extent. My only point to consider is whether or not Hillary would have “fanned the flames” the way Trump has, which surely contributes to the divisiveness. But sure, the right would have probably continued hating Hillary and chanting “lock her up” had she been elected.

b) How do you think the relations would have gone with Hillary Clinton and the republican governors? You think that would have been a great team effort everybody? — ssu

Not very well.

*tRumpistan Thursday* Fun Facts:

Taiwan (1,010 km from Wuhan, China)
• area - c14k sq mi
• pop. - c23.8m
• Covid-19 Reported Cases / DEATHS - 486 / 7 (January 21 - August 20, 2020)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/

Florida (13,315 km from Wuhan, China)
• area - c65.8k sq mi
• pop. - c21.5m
• Covid-19 Reported Cases / DEATHS - 588,602 / 10,052 (March 1 - August 20, 2020)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

In sum:

As of today August 20, 2020, with 4.7 times greater geographical area and yet roughly the same population numbers as well as 13 times FARTHER AWAY from Wuhan, China, the U.S. state of Florida ( :death: ) has 1,211 times MORE reported Cases of Covid-19 infections and 1,437 times MORE reported Deaths from Covid-19 than the entire country of Taiwan ( :mask: )

Compare NZ's elimination strategy with Trump's "positive thinking" strategy.

Embattled US President Donald Trump has once again taken aim at New Zealand over our recent resurgence of coronavirus, describing yesterday's five new cases as a "massive break out" as US cases continue to grow by tens of thousand everyday.

Speaking to a crowd in Pennsylvania, Trump said: "You look at our mortality rates, you look at all the things but they like to compare us to others so they were talking about New Zealand.

"New Zealand, New Zealand, it's over for New Zealand, everything's gone, it's all over - they're beautiful," said Trump, referencing the global acclaim New Zealand received for its response.

"They had a massive break out yesterday."

...

"New Zealand, by the way, had a big outbreak, and other countries that were held up to try and make us look not as good as we should look, and we've done an incredible job," he claimed.

"They're having a lot of outbreaks, but they'll be able to put them out, and we'll be able put them out."

...

The US death toll from Covid-19 is rapidly approaching 175,000 while New Zealand's stands at 22.

On the day that we recorded five new cases, the US recorded 46,500 according to the Centre for Disease Control.

Trump's comments are the third time this week that he has referenced New Zealand as he attempts to paint his handling of the pandemic in a better light. — NZ Herald - Covid 19 coronavirus: Donald Trump takes aim at NZ again

Do countries not share our look at each others data or something? The US has just ok'ed convalescent plasma as a treatment. I think it's almost 2 months ago (edit: July 6) that this has proved to be so-so in the Netherlands because sick people make the antibodies anyway so injecting more of them via plasma doesn't improve recovery.