But asking for every moment separately "Sleep instead?" and asking for the sum seems to lead to different results. This is strange. — Heiko
1) There are a lot of de facto things in the context of living in any given human social system. I'd rather be sleeping than clothes shopping or grocery shopping. I'd rather be sleeping than working on various spreadsheets or reading technical material that isn't interesting but necessary. I'd rather be sleeping than doing a lot of various tasks throughout the day big and small. — schopenhauer1
I'd certainly rather be sleeping than working, but I'd also rather be partying or watching TV or playing a game than sleeping. — Michael
Sure, but sleeping is sort of a neutral state..one where you are not conscious. Its a stand in for "not existing". Would you rather not exist much of the day or exist and bear through the activity? Its purposely meant to make you think about the motions of most everyday tasks and their worth. — schopenhauer1
Most people will already agree that a lot of the things we do we only do because we have to, and that we'd prefer to do anything else instead (e.g. sleeping) were that an option, so I'm not really sure the overall purpose of your argument. — Michael
If sleeping (being not awake) is preferable to most activities in waking life.. Of course no one is disputing that there are some things one rather do than sleep. But the percentage might be more interesting than one would first suspect. — schopenhauer1
This is quite ambiguous. Although a large percentage of my day is spent doing things I'd rather be sleeping than doing (e.g. working), in terms of all the things I could be doing (e.g. parting, watching TV, playing games, etc.), sleeping certainly isn't preferable to the majority. — Michael
If all you want to say is that a life of mostly sleeping is more desirable than a life of mostly working, then fine. But don't go further than that, because a life of mostly partying, watching TV, and playing games is more desirable than a life of mostly sleeping. — Michael
And of course, even if a life of mostly sleeping is better than a life of mostly working, I'd also say that a life of mostly working is better than a life of always sleeping. — Michael
Edit: Oh I see you said "always" sleeping versus mostly. So, you those minority of moments you prefer more than sleep make it worth it. Why? — schopenhauer1
Because the concept of eternal unconsciousness terrifies me. — Michael
If you knew that your life would be mostly "rather be sleeping" would you want that? — schopenhauer1
Actually, the point is that by the mere fact that you "rather be sleeping" much of the time, this speaks louder than your stated preferences.
If I was conscious before birth (somehow) and had to choose to either be born or to stop being conscious then I'd choose to be born, because the concept of eternal unconsciousness terrifies me. — Michael
Actually, the point is that by the mere fact that you "rather be sleeping" much of the time, this speaks louder than your stated preferences.
I don't know what you mean by this. That work sucks? I know. — Michael
never existing might have been preferable to the waking hours you enjoy. — schopenhauer1
Who would be around to dovthe preferring? Something cant be preferable without a person to prefer it. Preferring something is a state of a concious human mind. — Isaac
Hence edit 3. — schopenhauer1
Actually, the point is that by the mere fact that you "rather be sleeping" much of the time, this speaks louder than your stated preferences. — schopenhauer1
Or whatever else you don't want to do, and thus.. never existing might have been preferable to the waking hours you enjoy existing more generally. — schopenhauer1
No, a few hours of consciousness is preferable to none. — Michael
You can retrospectively and meaningfully talk about preference in its relation to never existing. You just can't actually never exist. — schopenhauer1
I think you mean a few waking hours doing only things you'd rather be doing than sleeping. Sure, but you can't have that. — schopenhauer1
No, this is the hypothetical situation where I replacing the things I don't like doing (e.g. working) with sleeping. There are still plenty of things in my life that I prefer doing to sleeping. And the few hours doing them is preferable to never having been born. — Michael
I don't see how. How can anyone meaningfully say they would prefer not to have existed when not existing negates any ability to experience a state of preference?
We don't talk this way about any other contingent states. We don't say, for example, that a painting would be more/less vibrant had it never been painted. The vibrancy is a property of the painting and so had it never been painted there'd be not entity to possess this property. — Isaac
We talk about situations which never happening being better, no? — schopenhauer1
Yes. Better for the people who experience the world absent of the negative situation, nit just 'better' in general. There's no general sense of 'better'. Something's being 'good' is belief within a human mind. Without human minds the concept has no meaning. — Isaac
There is something called sleep. It exists. "It like to be asleep" would be unconsciousness. Do you have to be aware for "something to be like"? Maybe, but that's not the topic at hand really. — schopenhauer1
If you could chose what to experience in life, it probably would only consist of a few minutes, maybe hours, or, at most, -days- for most people. — An0n
But no, choice and avoidance of suffering is the exact opposite of how life works, you are forced to endure every bit of difference between “your” (imposed) target state and “your” (imposed) actual reality.
The difference between those two changes and it’s sometimes more horrible than at other times, and they even pretty much never align, and if they would or come close, it’s only very temporarily, and you are very soon pained again. — An0n
*where does that “want” even come from? It’s another type of constant suffering inherent in being alive. — An0n
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