I'll play Devil's Advocate — RogueAI

Devil's avocado? I hope you're right anyway, and especially if America turns out to be kept great again for the next four years.

Create fear and offer more law and order. Reminds me of fascism.

Partly. But then again, many conservatives can argue for law and order and not be fascists.

Of course Trump's argument is a non-sequitur, as Biden's stance is obvious and actually from the Obama years he has experience of breaking up widescale protest with the OWS protests. Then the Obama administration showed how this is done: crack down on the protest with a media blackout and the hold strategic silence. Never even admit that crack down was a coordinated effort and let the media focus on other issues.

What I fear is that some assholes start mimicking the US and try to provoke activist from the left and right to start riots, or that the media creates a similar juxtaposition. And if the mantra is that a non-violent demonstration isn't enough, that you have to break stuff and burn cars to get media attention, the future isn't going to be happy.

It's an interesting contrast how little focus is given to what is happening in Belarus. There Lukashenko (and Putin) are just waiting for some reason to crack down on the Belarussian protests, that have been peaceful.

The ugly way these things seem to be handled is that if the opposition is too peaceful, too responsible and especially too capable of getting support and understanding from abroad, create (either literally or just portray) an opposition group that is radical, violent, and which you can go after.

At least in June the FBI found no evidence of Antifa inducing riots (see here) and has been actually quite consistent in monitoring any kind of radical movements, even if Trump immediately wanted to label Antifa as a terrorist organization. Not so easy to do, because it isn't a foreign organization. Still, Trump needs a clear enemy to tag Biden with.

Partly. But then again, many conservatives can argue for law and order and not be fascists. — ssu

Nothing wrong with law and order. It's the combination with an imagined enemy and government propaganda to that effect. If it isn't Jews, it's antifa.

Yes.

Or a very overblown threat estimate like with international terrorism, which is typical, as individual events always happen.

Yet the part of government propaganda isn't so well on with Trump (as it was during let's say the Bush years). Trump simply doesn't know how to lead institutions and organizations and now the only thing that he has managed is that his closest circle in the administration know how to parrot the Trump line (in order not to loose their job). Below that the US government is working just as it has done before.

Yet it's alarming when political discourse has gone to the level where the criticism against the other has nothing to do with what the other says or does. I guess it's the result of people living in their own echo chambers.

Fearsome words for a fearsome time and fearsome people, so easily made fearful when anyone has the means to invoke fear. If only the Sage of Baltimore was with us today, to witness the worst of what he predicted.

Nothing wrong with law and order. — Benkei

Nothing wrong with good law and order. Nothing good about bad law and order.

It seem to me that there is general and pervasive confusion about Trump and people like him, and even people who like him. It's understandable confusion. Most of us are accustomed to giving and receiving respect. It's ingrained; we're all people and members of a community. And so we all interact with each other in accordance with a broad and general set standards and practices.

Occasionally a monster arrives, but he - almost always a he - looks like us and on the surface seems like us. In reality he's a cross between a predator and a rabid animal, and most of the rest of us prey. And we are prey because we hold to standards of respect and honesty, among others. But to my way of thinking, it is a sign of growth, maturity, and good sense to recognize things and people for what they are and to treat them accordingly, and not as something or someone they are not.

What is common wisdom with a mad - rabid - dog? With appropriate resources, maybe to confine and observe, and maybe euthanize. More commonly, shoot it.

But Trump and his and his friends cannot be so treated, because in this case the cure is both immediately and insidiously worse than the disease. What is proper for him and them is justice. Not dialogue or any discussion or anything relational, because Trump uses, betrays, and perverts all of that. No. Investigation, indictment and arrest for crimes, trial, and on conviction, just and proportional punishment. But until then, it is worse than useless, even harmful, to attempt to attribute meaning to the words of any of Trump's utterances. They are but the mewling and howling of a vicious and mad animal.

since when was 'dim' a noun?

No, I label rioters as “rioters”. You call Americans “fascists” and, like a ghoul, cry foul when your incitement comes home to roost.

“I am not sad that a f–king fascist died tonight,” a woman shouts into a megaphone at a BLM-Antifa gathering after a man was shot dead nearby.

“He was a f–king Nazi. Our community held its own and took out the trash.”

BLM Activists Celebrated as Trump supporter killed

In my opinion the “Trump supporters” were stupid to go to Portland. — NOS4A2

Why the scare quotes? And is Trump stupid for planning to visit Kenosha tomorrow?

Why the scare quotes? And is Trump stupid for planning to visit Kenosha tomorrow?

It’s like calling the shooter, the rioters, Bernie supporters. It may be true, but it’s malinformation. The groups involved have names.

No, I think it’s wise for the president to show support to the victims of riots, and I think it’s a good move politically.

I haven't called any Americans fascists, but that lie serves to underscore your lack of ethics as usual.

You just cry “fascism” out of one side of the mouth and then pretend you’re not calling anyone a fascist out the other. So fake.

uhuh. So you're a liar and pretend it's my fault. Keep going charlatan.

No, I think it’s wise for the president to show support to the victims of riots, and I think it’s a good move politically. — NOS4A2

When your strategy is to be divisive, to increase the antipathy between the left and right, sure, Trump will do so. And the current environment will happily help him in this.

I think Trump hopes that those that have been alienated by his pandemic response fiasco among other issues, can be now lured to vote him because of the disgust that people have against the riots and looting. He has been trailing in the polls, so he is quite desperate.

Yet when you think about it, it's simply a stupid strategy. (But very typical, try to rally your side to vote by painting the other side the worse way.) The problem is that the division will remain. What I have noticed that this election fever, or "silly season", never goes away in US politics as it calmed down before. People will remain as divided as during the election, and now you are start having soon genuine election violence.

It will just get more ugly.

Blaming others for that which you are guilty. I’m not surprised.

I think it’s wise for the president to show support to the victims of riots, and I think it’s a good move politically. — NOS4A2

What if he inspires more Kenosha "militia", like these guys...



The kid on the left shot and killed two people and wounded another last week. Violence from the 'law & order' side won't help Trump politically, but now that I think about it, maybe it would.

It will get more ugly. But to blame Trump for the division, when most if not all of the rioters inform themselves through a hostile media, seems to me to be short-sighted and to attribute omnipotent power to one man. These are democrat-run cities now burned to the ground and I think the voters are now realizing this.

The kid clearly defended himself when a convicted pedophile rushed him and tried to grab his gun. He disarmed another man, quite literally, who ran at him with a pistol, and then he slayed another who tried to hit him with a skateboard. It turns out if you attack a man with a gun you get shot.

I see the word "aim" but not "dim."

In a monumental ruling, a federal appeals court denied Michael Flynn's motion to dismiss the DOJ's case against him

Everyone has a fantasy. In the case of these unfortunates, it's a fantasy of being law enforcement or soldiers, or perhaps just walking about with a gun excites them. Who knows what actually shooting people would do for them? A Christian fundraising site is raising money for this particular shooter's defense. It's what Jesus would want, you know.

lol it was the yellow window behind the text. Didn't notice it was a window after a cursory glance.

it's a fantasy of being law enforcement or soldiers, or perhaps just walking about with a gun excites them — Ciceronianus the White

Exactly. Just provide them with a high minded excuse and they've got the whole package. Boy could this get out of hand.

It turns out if you attack a man with a gun you get shot. — NOS4A2

Turns out that if you try to put out a fire with gasoline you’re an idiot.

Funny how you make less sense three replies in whenever I engage you. Who are these others I'm blaming? I believe I was talking to you and about your derelict moral compass and inability to read. Please quote me where I said Americans are fascists or apologise for the umpteenth lie about things I've never said just so you can have a pissing contest with a straw man.

It will get more ugly. But to blame Trump for the division, when most if not all of the rioters inform themselves through a hostile media, seems to me to be short-sighted and to attribute omnipotent power to one man. — NOS4A2

A hostile media by no means absolves Trump either. And while it being dubious to blame one man "for omnipotent power" is in a general way a fair point, in the case of the POTUS, I'm not so sure your remark holds as much weight as you appear to think it does. To suggest that Trump hasn't encouraged - perhaps even enjoyed - the hostile media seems to me to be a difficult view to hold. Bannon related Trump's view that "there is no such thing as bad media" or something to that effect.

These are democrat-run cities now burned to the ground and I think the voters are now realizing this. — NOS4A2

Cities in a republican-run country with a republican president if you want to play that game. It's kind of hilarious to be honest to hear talks that this is "Biden's America" when Trump is literally the one in office right now with these crises happening under his watch.

Trump offered federal support, only to be denied. Days after Wheeler rebuked the president’s offer a protester is killed. Once they asked for federal support in Wisconsin, and received it, the riots subsided. Imagine that.