Oh I will sweetie pie, knowing that you're my biggest fan — StreetlightX
I do not think that you can support the idea that all white people at all times are benefiting in any calculable way from the oppression of black people. — Pro Hominem
Understanding and/or becoming aware of white privilege requires knowing about enough of the situations that non whites deal with because they are not white. White privilege is the exemption from just these sorts of specific circumstances and/or situations. Those situations are only thought about when a non white individual tells their own story. Until then, the white individual cannot know about all of the injustices that they are themselves immune to.
— creativesoul
All your consideration is based on the racial premise of skin colour as the most fundamental socio-economic distinction and operator. How can we know that non-white deal with various situations exclusively because they are non-white, and white are exempted just because they are white? — Number2018
The benefit of being white in America is the immunity and/or exemption from being injured because one is not. — creativesoul
The benefit of being white in America is the immunity and/or exemption from being injured because one is not.
— creativesoul
Don't you think this is very convoluted way of talking? — ChatteringMonkey
Why not just say that the problem is that non-whites are being discriminated and oppressed?
It opens the door for otherwise unknowing and/or unaware white people to much better understand the extent of the problems. It sheds light upon the otherwise unknown reality. It leads to empathy where there could be none prior. It gets their attention considerably more than just saying that we have a racial discrimination problem...
... wouldn't ya say? — creativesoul
The benefit of being white in America is the immunity and/or exemption from being injured because one is not. — ChatteringMonkey
It opens the door for otherwise unknowing and/or unaware white people to much better understand the extent of the problems. It sheds light upon the otherwise unknown reality. It leads to empathy where there could be none prior. It gets their attention considerably more than just saying that we have a racial discrimination problem...
... wouldn't ya say? — creativesoul
I do think... with a fair amount of conviction... that once one becomes aware of the facts when blacks are not treated equally under the law, they can no longer be thought of as innocent. However, I would urge that the expectation placed upon each individual regarding what they ought do, would be commensurate with their ability to effect/affect change. A public official is held to a much higher standard than a poor rural white person living in the rust belt.
Both ought do what they can when they can. — creativesoul
The benefit of being white in America is the immunity and/or exemption from being injured because one is not. — creativesoul
Systemic racism is an observable fact. White privilege is an argumentative construct. One exists, the other is a tactic (I've explained many times why I think it's a bad tactic, but that won't stop any of you from continuing to use it). I've acknowledged that some white people have benefited from racial attitudes and laws in all sorts of ways, and that that is a problem that must be addressed. I do not think that you can support the idea that all white people at all times are benefiting in any calculable way from the oppression of black people. I don't even think you can satisfactorily define who exactly all these "white" people are. ((my emphasis)) — Pro Hominem
You do realize that one can know the biological shortcomings of race as a purported biological category, yet still proceed to meaningfully categorize a group of individuals based upon skin color, and continue doing so without ever devaluing them based upon skin color...
Right?
You're trying to create a distinction where there is no difference. Accomplice and collaborator mean more or less the same thing. Both require direct, knowledgeable involvement in a previously determined illegal act. Neither of them apply in this case, as even creativesoul has been telling you. — Pro Hominem
"Flagged for low post quality. Moved to the lounge." — Noble Dust
I told a story about injustice earlier in this thread that had four characters: a victim, a perpetrator, a beneficiary, and a bystander. Some people get to choose their role and some don't. Do we call that freedom to choose a privilege? — Srap Tasmaner
1. There exists a system that at least intends to divide people according to a criterion it calls "race".
2. That system marks some members of our society as "black" and some as "white".
3. This system legitimizes violating the human rights of those marked as "black" but not of those marked as "white".
4. The system also legitimizes various sorts of unfair or inequitable treatment of those marked as "black" but not of those marked as "white".
I do not believe there is any disagreement here on (1)-(4). — Srap Tasmaner
What matters is that they are a body (with a skin colour) which is treated with respect, given a place on a society, etc., so it's not a simple matter of ignoring race.
It's not good enough to say, "Race never matters, ignore it and just think about other things". If there are people of a certain skin colour who are treated badly in a society, it is an act upon them, upon their body, with its skin colour.
The equitable society cannot just ignore bodies different skin colour, as if it didn't matter where they occurred or they were treated. They have to understand a body of any skin colour is to be respected, understood to belong, treated justly, etc.
It must actively understand each individual, with their skin colour, is valued and belongs. It is not colorblind. It gets up and pronounces each person belongs in their own skin: a society in which White, Black, Asian, etc., such that it matters how each of those bodies is treated by society. — TheWillowOfDarkness
"no" because it's not just a sort of theorized in-group preference along the line Janus was describing; — Srap Tasmaner
Also reading Peggy McIntosh's white privilege papers that more or less started this whole thing. — Srap Tasmaner
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