Sex depends on culture. — Agustino
This is interesting, but I would doubt it because I don't really have a sex drive in the sense you speak about it. In my life in general, whatever sex drive you mention is absent. I never have this pressing desire to have sex that some others seem to have. I do have, let's say a long-term desire for sex in a monogamous relationship, but certainly not this desire for sex regardless of the circumstances/conditions in which it occurs.Your strenuous arguments against people having sex in anything but the pristine confines of a lasting monogamous relationship is clearly a form of sublimating your own sex drive — Bitter Crank
? This doesn't make much sense?You are substituting argument for sex in this discussion and getting the results all over everybody. — Bitter Crank
I disagree. It's not sex that is of the essence, it's survival. Because it's survival there are many other considerations that go into what actions one will engage in. Reproduction (not sex, and this is important) is very relevant to survival, because on a biological level, part of us (part of our genes) will survive in our offspring. But it's not sufficient to conceive the offspring (have sex) in order to ensure the survival of those genes. Quite the contrary, conceiving the offspring at the wrong time (or with the wrong person) may lead to my demise, as well as the demise of my future offspring. So there is no natural unrestrained sexual desire, because if this was the case, it wouldn't maximise the chance of survival. That's why we've developed intelligence - to be able to judge what conditions would maximise our survival.If sex depended on culture, evolution would have ceased and desisted a very long time ago. We, and everything more complicated than bacteria, wouldn't be here. Sex is a biological drive, like hunger, thirst, and sleep. The restrictions of society are the price of human advancement. Culture channels sex, but it doesn't provide its power. That's biology. Culture attempts to specify what sorts of emotional satisfactions we are to obtain from "proper sex" but our emotions always supersede culture. — Bitter Crank
Not at all, because again I don't share your view. Human nature is not in conflict with society, but on the contrary, is fulfilled by society. We have a social drive in us, that is more fundamental than whatever sexual drive you mention, because it plays a much bigger role in our own survival, as well as the survival of our offspring. So I'm not blocking any innate desire of the human organism, that's why much of what you say doesn't make sense to me. I simply don't feel this way. I don't see how restricting sex to so and so a circumstance is a restriction, and not precisely the fulfilment of sex.Our human natures are always in conflict with our created societies. That's why life is essentially neurotic. The closer we come to actually blocking drives (and not just channeling them) the closer we are to neuroses bordering on actual pathology. Your path of restricting sex to either a consecrated marriage or an unconsecrated, long-term monogamous relationship, and disparaging all others, amounts to recommending that the sex drive either obey your rules or be blocked. That is the path to craziness. — Bitter Crank
Oh common BC - I could maybe take that as true if I hadn't spent some of my life living in Western society. But I have. I know what you're saying here simply isn't the truth...You are more mesmerized by sexual imagery than most people are, apparently. You are taking what you see on the screen for the content of western culture. It isn't so. — Bitter Crank
Actually it's not pancake effect ... alas, let's do some engineering using the method for illustrating the simplicity of Truth that we have seen recently presented in the forums:Actually, fires have never brought down steel buildings, ever, in the past. And, no plane had to hit WTC7; but, supposedly office fires brought it down also. It's an insult to the intelligence and effort of the engineers who build the World Trade Centers, who by the way actually overengineered the buildings to withstand a plane hit. What you're describing was first called the "pancake effect", which NIST even walked back on due to its absurdity. — Question
It seems you have given up what is noble because the mind is not eternal. That seems absurd. — Agustino
Well it would be strange if other life forms would have been around for longer than bacteria, considering the fact that the first life to appear would be bacteria, since they are relatively the simplest in complexity. Evolution would be in quite some trouble if bacteria weren't around for the longest time :P — Agustino
Which goes to show what I told you before. In nature, the fittest doesn't always win - if the fittest always won, we wouldn't be here :PThey were here at the beginning and they are still here. Most species have long, long, long since disappeared. They will be here long after everything else. They are the preeminent success story in terms of survival. — Bitter Crank
I don't really have a sex drive in the sense you speak about it — Agustino
In my life in general, whatever sex drive you mention is absent. — Agustino
I never have this pressing desire to have sex that some others seem to have. — Agustino
that's why much of what you say doesn't make sense to me. — Agustino
:-! facile to say, but I didn't start here exactly. Back before I had my first girlfriend I experienced this kind of desire for, I guess you could say, orgasm, and probably I did want to have sex with some of the "hot girls". It mostly manifested through watching pornography and masturbation. But after I started dating my first girlfriend, I got cured of the pornography and masturbation (because she "forced" me to stop :P ) and after my second girlfriend was never that interested just in sex anymore. In my mind, from my perspective, I simply understood that there's not much to gain from sex outside a long-committed life-long relationship, and just the physical pleasure, without the psychological isn't much pleasure anyway. I don't understand why people go their whole life without making these realisations, bound in the chains of their sexual desire. I mean common... if I can do it, how can there be folks more than double my age who are still so into their sexual desire - I see old folks running after the young girls it's so hilarious! Like is that for real? >:O That's kind of embarrassing for them I think. Even at that advanced age, when they should be paragons of wisdom, they are still worshipping at the altar of pussy. Give me a break >:OAt last! The admission that explains your views. When it comes to the healthy sex drives of 3.5 billion men, you don't know what you are talking about. ` — Bitter Crank
By definition a virgin (applied to someone who intends to get married) is someone who has saved sex for marriage — Agustino
Salvation is through the belief Jesus died for your sins not through works or grace in this life. — Benkei
That is when I decided to let go of Stoicism and Buddhism. — Emptyheady
Why is it preferable than, for example, to abstain from it until the long-term relationship? It seems you and Bitter Crank are stuck with Freud! Common... there's so much more to psychology than Freud, that's old news today! What's with these three level schemes? Ego, Super-Ego and id become intellect, biology, and social - my days... If I was Voegelin I'd say you two (and your papa Freud) are Gnostics par-excellence!The latter, however, I see as preferable (as long as both partners are aware of the circumstances and consensual) to pretending to have full top-down intellectual control of the sexual drive and repressing it for whatever religious or ideological reason (preferable for a normal male at least - as mentioned earlier). — Baden
there's so much more to psychology than Freud — Agustino
I don't get the pun? :P My low intelligence isn't sufficient... and I just realised there is no crying emoticon. Tragic.Yes, like how we treat those who are mentally ill...oh wait. — Heister Eggcart
The Chinese have a saying... Nobody knows what the sleeping dragon can do >:Oyour patiently waiting balls — Heister Eggcart
"Neurosis" and "society" are a combo package. In order to construct society we have to limit our individual drives, urges, aspirations, and appetites. Limiting natural drives, urges, aspirations, and appetites produces neuroses. "Limit" isn't the same as "blocking", however. It's a fair tradeoff. Society makes all kinds of things possible, and we have more or less learned to live with the resulting neuroses.
"Living with neuroses" is about as close to perfect psychological health as we are going to get. — Bitter Crank
Bingo, I agree 100%. That's exactly why I hate this modern Western culture. And people like BC and Baden aren't helping it, that's for sure.Children are growing up oversexed and underfucked with all sorts of self-esteem issues due to the image society projects of a 'healthy' and 'successful' male. — Question
The latter, however, I see as preferable (as long as both partners are aware of the circumstances and consensual) to pretending to have full top-down intellectual control of the sexual drive and repressing it for whatever religious or ideological reason (preferable for a normal male at least - as mentioned earlier). I would consider that to be something like the intellectual level of the self being hijacked by the social level and making war on the biological level. As BC pointed out, not good. — Baden
What are you now? And you really saying that you ceased all inquiries into Buddhism on account of a Zizek video? — Thorongil
What made you change your mind on Stoicism/Buddhism after seeing that video? — Agustino
Buddhist’s views on suffering, desire, attachment, ego with its ultimate telos as Nirvana imply a certain amenable view of human nature, which I think is simply false and utopian. No matter how much you practice or how much teachings you follow, human nature won’t change and neither will you. — Emptyheady
You seem to imply that because something is fatalistic in its teaching that that should be avoided — Question
The situation is much worse for growing and developing children growing up surrounded by media and advertisements promoting sex at such a young age. — Question
I grew up in a vacuum of information about sex, sexual imagery, sexual content, sexual innuendo, etc. Born in 1946, small town in rural Minnesota. No TV till the late 50s; the local movie theater ran standard fare--westerns, comedies, an occasional monster flick, that sort of thing. Small library, etc. PURE and WHOLESOME. — Bitter Crank
There was far too little in the way of information, too little content, too little sexual imagery. Like, none. Hey, great for first graders, but not so great for 16 year olds. On the other hand, children don't benefit from a glut of information, imagery, content, innuendo either. Unless the parents are AWOL, there is no reason why children would be over-loaded. — Bitter Crank
Children can get over-supplied with sexual content too early when they are given the means to peruse the internet and cable TV without supervision and oversight. Even without sexual content being available, it isn't healthy for children (or adults either) to be transfixed by the social media on digital devicee for hours on end--practically 24/7. — Bitter Crank
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.