I perfectly distinguish the mental world from the material world... I think; all I am saying is that if I am part of the material world and dreams (and the mental world) are a part of me then dreams (and the mental world) are part of the material world. — Daniel
I think the difference is that reality is independent of dreams while dreams are not independent of reality. — Daniel
Take away the material world and the world of dreams goes away to but the converse isn't true, at least to the extent that I'm aware. — TheMadFool
another thing is if they represent, reflect or report something real, that happens outside the brain. — David Mo
That's exactly what I am saying. If the world of dreams is part of the material world, then the former must be as real as the latter. However, they are not the same thing, obviously. Now, if we consider real that which is not imagined then dreams are NOT real, off course. Again, all I wanted to say is that the act of considering the world of dreams as something independent of the material world is erroneous. — Daniel
Again, all I wanted to say is that I think that to make the world of dreams an entity separate/independent from the material world is bad thinking. — Daniel
Basically, is the world we've decided to accept the material world all there is? Or is there another level of reality we can wake up to? — TheMadFool
There is no absolute reason to choose the real world instead the dream world. All the reasons I have suggested here are reasonable and common sense, but nothing more. But I would not like to see some beloved person behave in real life as if the dream they have had were more real. I am afraid -I am sure- he would be doomed to disaster.
It seems to me that this is a subject for fantastic and romantic films. Not for the world we live in. — David Mo
Sorry, what logic?if we assume, for whatever reason, that this world is the only reality, the same logic would apply, no? — TheMadFool
we don't know if the material world we live isn't just another dream — TheMadFool
Sorry, you know the real world is not a dream because it doesn't have the characteristics of a dream. — David Mo
if I am part of the material world and dreams (and the mental world) are a part of me then dreams (and the mental world) are part of the material world. — Daniel
However, the waking world could itself be a dream — TheMadFool
How do you know that the screen of a TV is not the screen of a photo camera?
Answer: because they work differently.
The question: How do we know that when we are awake we do not dream?
Answer: Because we function differently than when we dream.
What you may want to ask is:
How do we know that when we're awake we capture something out of the mind? Couldn't it be that there is nothing real as a reference of our perceptions as it happens in dreams?
It's less literary, but it's more accurate. — David Mo
I want to ask you a simple question: Do you know, for certain, that this world, your waking world, is real and not a simulation? — TheMadFool
Do you have any proof that the world we live in is a simulation? — David Mo
I'm not claiming that the world is or is not a simulation. Frankly, I don't know and, in fact, nobody does. — TheMadFool
Right, which makes the question a waste of life — JerseyFlight
Frankly, I don't know and, in fact, nobody does. — TheMadFool
This is only true if you are talking about absolute knowledge. If you low the bar, you should consider the reasons I have already given in the previous comment. — David Mo
I am not going to start a discussion about who bears the burden of proof — David Mo
Well, it's not impossible to relax the rules every now and then to make an idea or a theory more digestible but where are you going to draw the line between what is knowledge and what is not knowledge then? — TheMadFool
There is not a single branch of knowledge, except the formal sciences, that seeks absolute knowledge. Each of these branches has its criteria to distinguish between knowledge and other things, such as faith, opinion, etc. Natural sciences have strong criteria. Other branches of knowledge are more ductile. This does not mean that there is no separation between science and opinion, or between rational knowledge and faith, reality and dream. It simply means that the claim of absolute knowledge leads to absolute skepticism, a position that is impossible to maintain in practice. — David Mo
Look, "life is a dream" is fine for Calderón de la Barca's theological comedies, but if you intend to take your dreams for reality, I recommend an urgent visit to an analyst — David Mo
An absolute skeptic would think this conversation be absurd. I'm not talking. I have no absolute proof that you, my computer, the chair, etc. exist.Why is it impossible to maintain what you refer to as "absolute skepticism"? — TheMadFool
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