You can learn something about Philosophy or other topics, you can check if you make sense (at all) and it's better than wasting your time watching Netflix.

I'm trying to contact the Star People.

There is nothing better for a thinker, in developing his thought, than to go up against a quality contrary mind. One cannot replicate this vital negativity themselves. However, it can actually be degenerative to go up against unskilled thinkers because they drive the emphasis away from intelligence. In this case, one is not necessarily progressing but regressing. This is why I don't suffer the stupidity of Christians, their emphasis is nonsense.

the stupidity of Christians — JerseyFlight

Surely you mean, religious people? If not, interesting. Kinda odd to just single out a certain dish out of an identical buffet if you ask me.

Faith is a belief in something that either is not or can not be easily proven. There are approximately 7.8 million scientists in the world familiar with complex theorems and formulas with access to priceless machines and laboratories to prove it. There are 7.6 billion people in the world. That means only 0.01 of the world population CAN directly prove anything we are told to be facts.

Have you ever seen an electron? A black hole? Witnessed nuclear fusion? Observed evolution? Performed carbon dating? Odds are you haven't. Yet we trust people who say they have and so have faith in the things we're told as facts. Sure "oh there's papers" - it's the same thing. Unless you can perform the experiments/observations yourself it's a simple matter of faith and nothing less.

nonsense. — JerseyFlight

What is nonsense really? A perfect system of eight (or nine) planets all rotating around a single star in near-perfect harmony and equilibrium? The idea of a planet with just the right amount of sun, oxygen, and life-sustaining elements to just barely be able to produce life that not only survives but thrives? If you base your definition of 'sense' on reality- numbers, facts, charts, and probability- you can call a thing nonsense, but we're living it, pal.

Kinda odd to just single out a certain dish out of an identical buffet if you ask me. — Outlander

I'm an American, in America we deal with Christians. I don't have time to deal with every religion in the world. My provincialism in this sense is a matter of focus and relevance.

Have you ever seen an electron? A black hole? Witnessed nuclear fusion? Observed evolution? Performed carbon dating? — Outlander

If you want to talk about reality that is one thing, if you want to attempt to use reality to sneak in your idea of God, that is another thing. I don't have time for this game and will not suffer your abstraction.

To learn (seeking knowledge) and to teach (making a change), both of them by talking with others, either of which gets me attention, and which justify my views in different senses of that phrase: the former in the sense of acquiring reasons to hold views (adjusting my views in the process to accord with those reasons), the latter in the sense of displaying the reasons to hold my views.

Your comment is quite a bon mot in connection to the reasons I brainstormed.

If you want to talk about reality that is one thing, if you want to attempt to use reality to sneak in your idea of God, that is another thing. — JerseyFlight

What if I don't want to talk about your preconceived notions or idea of reality. No disrespect, I obviously don't know you but, who are you to think you know anything. I mean really. Lol. You know what you're told and little more I'm afraid. Same here, of course. It just seems like you need a good reminding.

Imagine being raised a few hundred years ago being told the Sun revolves around the Earth. I mean- by all understandable observation it does. That's reality. Until it was disproved.

You seem to be conflating my simple challenge for you to- not even challenge your own beliefs- but to simply accept the possibility in such a dynamic and chaotic universe, one may be mistaken. Just as one Nicolaus Copernicus did to a dark and confused society not 500 years ago. Nothing more. Why the idea of you perhaps being mistaken translates to "my idea of God" to you is beyond my own reproach. But not yours.

What if I don't want to talk about your preconceived notions or idea of reality. No disrespect, I obviously don't know you but, who are you to think you know anything. I mean really. Lol. You know what you're told and little more I'm afraid. Same here, of course. It just seems like you need a good reminding. — Outlander

Quoting Flight himself:

"In a skilled thinker the polemic is implicit to the exposition."

In resume: - An argumentative tactic where he is rude, ignorant and offensive and he is legitimated by "philosophical" - pseudo - theory.

Even the Party from 1984 would be impressed by his use of doublethink...

It is not surprising that anyone who tries to engage in a discussion with him will end up noticing these facts, but in case they don't, I make it a point to make it public.

However, it can actually be degenerative to go up against unskilled thinkers because they drive the emphasis away from intelligence. In this case, one is not necessarily progressing but regressing. This is why I don't suffer the stupidity of Christians, their emphasis is nonsense. — JerseyFlight

Perhaps before pointing out the splinter in another's eye, you should remove the plank from your own first. A paraphrase from Mathew 7:5, and an interesting point you might want to consider. A skilled thinker welcomes, and is able to speak with, "the unskilled". Arguably, the mark of a skilled thinker is one who can think effectively in most situations, not simply a certain prescribed environment. They welcome challenges to their line of thought, and are always open to having their mind changed.

Further, an attitude of dismissal can quickly bring you to ruin. It becomes all too easy to write off those who disagree with you as "unskilled" because they just don't see your personal brilliance. Your own mind will try to trick you of its own greatness so it does not have to think to hard on its own conclusions. It is intellectual laziness and ego. A good thinker realizes this, and stays vigilant against these types of thoughts. We should speak to all types of people, not only those we deem, "worthy", because we all too easily can narrow our scope to that which we find comfortable to us.

Finally, you let your anger betray your desire to be a rational thinker. There was no need to place your distaste of Christian's to the OP's question. It was an irrational addition. Anger and dislike can be motivators in our discussions, but they shouldn't cause us to need to insert our own agenda in discussions that have nothing to do with them. If your anger against Christianity is causing you to make such mistakes, maybe its something you should take some time to get a handle on.

Rodeo clownin' mostly. There's a lot of pseudo-whatever bulls*** that calls for naming & shaming, diverting & subverting in order to protect "riders & spectators" alike. For me TPF, like its previous incarnation at best, is a(nother) virtual front in a perpetual war of Intellect against Credulity & Stupidity. The rest is just me playfully wandering around this intellectually unhygienic swap meet, neither buying nor selling much, just - to paraphrase a venerated elder - surveying all the ideas/confusions I'm now happier to live without.

who are you to think you know anything. — Outlander

Listen, game player, epistemological hypocrite, let's watch you contradict yourself:

Affirmations of knowledge:

I mean- by all understandable observation it does. That's reality. Until it was disproved. — Outlander

one may be mistaken. — Outlander

Just as one Nicolaus Copernicus did to a dark and confused society not 500 years ago. — Outlander

Further, an attitude of dismissal can quickly bring you to ruin. It becomes all too easy to write off those who disagree with you as "unskilled" — Philosophim

I agree with this.

Your own mind will try to trick you of its own greatness so it does not have to think to hard on its own conclusions. — Philosophim

I agree with this.

A good thinker realizes this, and stays vigilant against these types of thoughts. — Philosophim

I agree with this.

We should speak to all types of people, not only those we deem, "worthy", because we all too easily can narrow our scope to that which we find comfortable to us. — Philosophim

I agree with this as well. Vetting in this sense should not be conducted on the basis of superficial considerations.

There was no need to place your distaste of Christian's to the OP's question. It was an irrational addition. — Philosophim

Irrational??? There are lots of Christians on here and I do not cater to their sophistry. This is no more a crime than resisting those who try to promote the existence of faeries or unicorns.

I reject your false moralism that elevates error and delusion to a level of deserving intellectual respect. I deny this, and not only deny it, but will continue to deal critically with these sophists.

Because it is the natural aftereffect of it's predecessor 'philosophyforums' which was the best philosophy forum around back in the day.

Just another way of trying to find people who think like me to communicate with. People that love gut feeling for stuff but realises the shortcomings of that and can discuss accordingly. Details is not what gives my brain delight. I am not bad with details, Computers brings milk to my children but I find no pleasure in discussing details. Unfortunately detail discussions are what brings science forward. But even in science hypothesis are put and conclusions are drawn. Thats where I come in. I will avoid lengthy arguments to win. I will try to get the total picture. Of stuff.

another way of trying to find people who think like me — Ansiktsburk

You can find people like that anywhere and everywhere.

You can find people like that anywhere and everywhere. — Professor Death

No.

why no?

Irrational??? There are lots of Christians on here and I do not cater to their sophistry. This is no more a crime than resisting those who try to promote the existence of faeries or unicorns.

I reject your false moralism that elevates error and delusion to a level of deserving intellectual respect. I deny this, and not only deny it, but will continue to deal critically with these sophists. — JerseyFlight

The OP asked why you posted on this forum. You replied with people who you don't interact with in this forum. If you had stated you posted to argue with Christians, it would have made sense. But instead you out of your way to point out those you avoid posting against on the forums. Your irrationality is not your personal beliefs about Christianity, or your need to critique it where appropriate. The mention was off topic and unneeded.

Its like a person coming into a topic that has nothing to do with God, but tries to insert God into the conversation. If a Christian came into this topic and stated,

"There is nothing better for a person of faith, in developing his thought, than to go up against a quality contrary intelligence. One cannot replicate this vital negativity themselves. However, it can actually be degenerative to go up against faithless thinkers because they drive the emphasis away from intelligence. In this case, one is not necessarily progressing but regressing. This is why I don't suffer the stupidity of atheists, their emphasis is nonsense."

...I would have, (and have in the past) pointed out the same flaws in their post.

Whether you realize it or not (we often do not realize these things in ourselves), you are simply expressing the other side of the same coin that those who are overzealous for Christianity often times do. Were you a Christian one time, or were raised in a Christian home? I have run across many fellow atheists over the years, and the ones who have the need to prosthelytize their disdain and distaste for Christianity in such ways are often still carrying a wound that has not healed from their personal experiences within Christianity.

If you had stated you posted to argue with Christians, it would have made sense. — Philosophim

This is exactly what I said I don't do.

Your irrationality — Philosophim

Yeah, still waiting for this charge to be sustained.

There is nothing better for a person of faith, in developing his thought, than to go up against a quality contrary intelligence. — Philosophim

This would not be good for faith.

you are simply expressing the other side of the same coin that those who are overzealous for Christianity often times do. — Philosophim

There is no equivalence here. Those who indoctrinate the species with delusion cannot be compared to those who refute it.

This is yet more evidence that you troll threads to project your anger towards
Theism. Dude, slay your Gilligan's!!!

Philosophim's right. Once again, he's aware of it too. Not to mention his telling quote that, oddly enough, describes you:

“The temptation to belittle others is the trap of a budding intellect, because it gives you the illusion of power and superiority your mind craves. Resist it. It will make you intellectually lazy as you seek "easy marks" to fuel that illusion, [and] a terrible human being to be around, and ultimately, miserable. There is no shame in realizing you have fallen for this trap, only shame on continuing along that path."
— Philosophim

This is yet more evidence that you troll threads to project your anger towards
Theism. — 3017amen

Don't flatter yourself. I don't consider theology of any importance. I ignore just about every theistic thread on this forum, as they are full of intellectual poverty and third-rate thinkers at best. I usually only deal with Christians when they get in my way, and I do it swiftly, the same way I dealt with you.

I don't consider theology of any importance. I ignore just about every theistic thread on this forum, as they are full of intellectual poverty and third-rate thinkers at best. I usually only deal with Christians when they get in my way, and I do it swiftly, the same way I dealt with you. — JerseyFlight

Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like you really get emotional about theism and post quite a lot about it. I don't think your fellow atheists would appreciate that, would they?

Problem is, too, you seemingly can't get out of your own way LOL.

(Put in a quarter and try again!)

I'm a retired mathematician with little knowledge of philosophy, so I mostly read posts. The writing on this forum is at times excellent, and the ideas expressed - well, sometimes consistent with the quality of writing. Oddly enough I have learned a bit more about mathematics here, as well as physics. But I admit I get snookered by convincing posts in the latter subject when metaphysics seeps into the discussion. :smile:

I reject your false moralism that elevates error and delusion to a level of deserving intellectual respect. I deny this, and not only deny it, but will continue to deal critically with these sophists. — JerseyFlight

Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like you really get emotional about theism and post quite a lot about it. I don't think your fellow atheists would appreciate that, would they?

Problem is, too, you seemingly can't get out of your own way LOL. — 3017amen

Eh, another kid who's on an atheism crusade. I was there once. Dawkins, Dennett, Sam Harris, Htichens, etc. Everything becomes about battling the the bad guys -- those religious people! We, on the other hand, who are educated in the truth (science), know for a certainty what reality is and so can feel superior in shitting on those of "faith."

You're absolutely right to say it gives atheists (like myself) a terrible name. I really don't give a damn about what people believe, I care about what they do. Beliefs are certainly an important component, but are almost always extremely stubborn -- the way to change them is not through demeaning people, but by leading from example and educating. Like all good teachers. Yelling about how stupid and ignorant they are serves only one purpose: making yourself feel better. It serves another purpose, too: it makes you look like a child.

My advice is to wish people like this well in their quest (they will fail), and hope they grow out of it. Their emotional immaturity betrays them, making them fairly easy to dismiss/ignore. Once they grow up in that department, they can be welcomed to the adult table. Because there is a lot to be said about superstitions and strange beliefs.

I've been pretty disappointed with this forum, overall. Someone reminded me that it is an "amateur" forum and that I shouldn't expect real expertise -- and that's probably true. Yet there are common mistakes I often see -- like appeals to the dictionary -- that are truly embarrassing even for amateurs. The level of discourse is another matter -- a lot of ego, defensiveness, insults, sarcasm, etc. I'm guilty of it myself, admittedly.

Like with any group, you get a few people who are truly interesting and worth dialoguing with. This is where I learn a thing or two, which is impossible almost anywhere else (try it on Twitter or YouTube), and for that I'm grateful.

Everything becomes about battling the the bad guys -- those religious people! — Xtrix

You are sore mistaken if you think your rosy view of religion is reality. The horrors and tyranny of religion have only been put in check by secular humanism. Religion is not some innocent belief system that merely makes people feel happy, it's a vicious historical dogma that is always seeking to propel itself to a place of power. Your view on it is emotive as opposed to objective. The historical acts in which religion has engaged, the brutality it has justified, slavery, torture, war, suppression of free thought, these are not mere fictions but realities. When you talk about "growing up," that is precisely what religion cannot do. It is not a mere act of emotion to refute error, but an intellectual responsibility. I wish our species was advanced beyond the primitive, psychological state of religion. I would rather not have to deal with it at all.

Because I was winning every single argument on the Disney forums, so I went looking for tougher opponents.

would rather not have to deal with it at all. — JerseyFlight

Then you should get out of philosophy all together because over 75% of philosophical domains posit God.

As they say, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen LOL.

Like with any group, you get a few people who are truly interesting and worth dialoguing with. This is where I learn a thing or two, which is impossible almost anywhere else (try it on Twitter or YouTube), and for that I'm grateful. — Xtrix

Impossible to learn a thing or two almost anywhere else? You poor man. :worry: