When we look at examples of evil, we always see a privation of some perfection -- of good health, of justice, of compassion, of rights, etc. So, while you may use words as you wish, I prefer to analyze examples to understand what terms mean. — Dfpolis
A "privation of some perfection" is, again, poetry. If, for instance, you were to take pleasure in the pain of someone you did not cause, no one and no thing is literally being deprived. — Kenosha Kid
Cancer in and of itself is a mindless and inevitable consequence of terrestrial biology. It was not created with purpose, does not proceed with purpose, and knows nothing of harm. It is only with respect to someone it impacts that it takes on the quality of evil and only in a poetic sense. — Kenosha Kid
It is our arrogance and bias that says we do not deserve it, should not have it, are being deprived. 'It is unfair because it effects *me*.' — Kenosha Kid
I find it intensely egomaniacal to believe that anything that harms one is evil, like a teenager throwing a tantrum because they do not get what they want, when they want, and hang the consequences. — Kenosha Kid
If you took pleasure in harm to others, you would lack the disposition to empathize proper to a social animal, which humans are. So, you would be a defective human being. — Dfpolis
because it deprives their bodies of their proper function. — Dfpolis
The act itself is not its own cause. — Kenosha Kid
Again, this is not a description of the thing, but of the impact of the thing on the sufferer. — Kenosha Kid
were we to die of nothing else, we would die of cancer due to the small carcinogenic properties of the very oxygen essential to our life. — Kenosha Kid
Describing such things as evils is precisely the adolescent temper tantrum I mentioned, — Kenosha Kid
nothing more than an inability to accept facts that don't happen to suit us. — Kenosha Kid
This is also incorrect. I, and most other people, accept the fact that bad things happen. I do not wish to continue if you are going to engage in further ad hominem attacks. — Dfpolis
I never implied that it was. — Dfpolis
So? The evil is still a privation -- the lack of a perfection in a human being. — Dfpolis
if you agree that a cause of a thing is not the thing itself, then you agree yours was an irrelevant point since the claim is that a thing like cancer is objectively evil in itself. — Kenosha Kid
If we are designed to rely on carcinogenic substances to live, thus assuring eventual deterioration of health, then there is no meaningful perfection of human life that is deprived by this deterioration. — Kenosha Kid
That's not evil, — Kenosha Kid
it's just irrational, immature, arrogant, egotistical railing against our own nature's. — Kenosha Kid
The halfhearted proper-functionalism with which you attempt to justify this position doesn't actually do any work, because as you yourself admit, what constitutes proper function is itself a normative stance, so this is just like trying to pull yourself out of the swamp by pulling on your own hair. — SophistiCat
Cancer is a physical evil because it, itself, is a privation of health. — Dfpolis
First, we're not designed to live on carcinogens. If we were, they wouldn't harm us. — Dfpolis
Second, the very fact that you call it a "deterioration," means that it is a lesser state. i.e. one in which some perfection is no longer present. — Dfpolis
It is neither immature nor ranting to call things by their proper names. — Dfpolis
A masochist would have people cause him pain. Following the Golden Rule, would he have to conclude that he should cause other people pain ? — MMusings
Cancer is a physical evil because it, itself, is a privation of health. — Dfpolis
This makes no sense. Something cannot have a property in and of itself if that property depends on other properties of other things. If the ball is objectively red, it is so independent of the state of any observer. To say it is red because people with red-green colour blindness see it as such is not a statement of its objective properties. — Kenosha Kid
We are designed to breathe molecular oxygen which is a mild carcinogen. — Kenosha Kid
Second, the very fact that you call it a "deterioration," means that it is a lesser state. i.e. one in which some perfection is no longer present. — Dfpolis
That can't seriously be your argument. So if I say "There is no God," do you then think there must be a God in order for him to not exist? — Kenosha Kid
Good and evil are relational. It is the relation between what is and what is adequate that makes things good or bad. There is nothing bad about cancer cells growing in a petri dish, only cancer cells interfering with health are a physical evil. — Dfpolis
I am surprised to find that you think we are designed at all. — Dfpolis
In the course of dying, our health will decline, and that is a physical, but not a moral, evil. So, what point are you making? — Dfpolis
To deteriorate is to become worse. In other words, something was better and has now lost its previous perfection. — Dfpolis
This forum would be much improved (and much smaller) if Moderators filtered out ad hominem attacks, and the sort of "name-calling" one doesn't expect among parties sincerely engaged in trying to find the truth...From the Site Guidelines "A respectful and moderate tone is desirable". — MMusings
Exactly. Ergo there is nothing objectively evil about cancer, only subjectively evil about my cancer or the cancer of a loved one, or my general reduced life expectancy because of the existence of cancer (immature railing against death). — Kenosha Kid
I am surprised to find that you think we are designed at all. — Dfpolis
In the blind watchmaker sense :) — Kenosha Kid
That there is nothing 'evil' about it. It's merely a fact of life, without which we'd have nothing to complain about... Or with! — Kenosha Kid
I was saying that nothing deteriorated — Kenosha Kid
Not quite. We can understand, scientifically, the purposes of many things, aka teleology. We know that if you have a defective heart, your blood will not circulation will be in adequate. It is on this basis, that we decide on norms for heart function. There is no circularity here, just openness to reality — Dfpolis
The fact that it is relational does not make it subjectively dependent. — Dfpolis
There is absolutely no basis in reality for Dawkin's view — Dfpolis
Evil is not about complaining, it is about objective inadequacy — Dfpolis
As we grow old, our bodies become increasingly inadequate to support a healthy life. That is an objective fact, whether or not one is reconciled to it. — Dfpolis
But you did. Don't pull a Trump and deny what is on the record. — Dfpolis
No factual proposition can be validly deduced from a normative proposition. — MMusings
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