You'll have to do better than that.

No need to read Trump's mind, nor the mind of anyone who has operative racist beliefs governing their actions and words.

Of course there is no need to read Trump’s mind. No one can read a mind. All you have is imagination and fantasy.

I cannot be bothered to correct such an absurd claim that excessive force cases are not investigated. — NOS4A2

Changing the subject will not help you here. Nor will a misrepresentation of what I claimed. I did not deny that excessive force cases are investigated.

Your claim is bullshit because excessive force cases are not 'routinely' punished. That is false by any and all standards of what counts as such. The data I asked for would verify and/or falsify your claim and mine.

I know that excessive force cases are not routinely punished. You know it too. Everyone knows it by now. That's why your attempting to divert the focus. Put the stats forward. Show I'm wrong. Show your right. Those stats are at your fingertips. Use them.

In the absence of a confession, the only evidence you have of their thoughts is propaganda or projection. — NOS4A2

That is false. Again...

Evidence of an individual's thoughts are patterns of their behaviour. Habits of thought directly influence how one acts during certain situations.

We can read Trump's words. We can listen to what he says. We can review the history of both, his words and his behaviours during and about racially charged social situations. We can gather more than enough evidence needed to confidently conclude - to know - that he is racist.

We can do much the same, as I've already stated, regarding whether or not law enforcement officials are acting more forcefully based upon the color of the suspect's skin. There are policies which prove that they are, they do, and/or they have distinctly different actions based upon skin color.

There is no need for mind reading.

Are you denying that patterns of one's behaviour is evidence of their thought and belief? Are you denying that habits of thought and belief directly influence and/or govern how one acts?

I will not allow you to obfuscate here.

I was going to start a topic regarding a recent event in the news of relation. I like to look at events that have potential racial pretenses in two ways- one as those who assert they do say, and then as if everyone involved literally looked the exact same. The stats is what is important. Do other people get shot in no-knock raids? Are they punished less (ie. is it just blue privilege)? Most importantly would be is the ex-boyfriend (which the entire warrant was based on) a criminal with current ties to the residence? Etc.

You're talking about the Taylor event right? Getting murdered for having had a relationship with an unsavory individual in the past is a problem. That was a wrongful killing. It's certainly not the only one.

Yeah. Well, alright see right there. No one planned to kill Breonna Taylor. At least, there's no evidence of that? Wrong place, wrong time. Such as where it was.. dangerous people introduce danger into your life. Like gangs. It doesn't "go away" when you decide to do something else.

The AG was saying, the warrant was issued. The issue is whether the warrant was issued inappropriately, which can be changed by democratic process, or it wasn't. At this point the officers are little more than AI robots sent to a location, to search it or extract an individual, and protect their lives if necessary, nothing more. I'm not saying racial prejudices aren't a thing, nor especially am i not saying "historical grievances" created, contributed or continue to contribute to an inescapable (though it really is if people would just think and pray- it's an open system- no matter what the minority of the majority who are bad try to push will say, often through (using) those they target) existence of violence- just that there's much to consider.

No one planned to kill Breonna Taylor. — Outlander

Not all murder is premeditated. It is all wrongful killing. Killing Taylor was wrongful. Did race play a part in her killing, such that she was killed because she was black? Probably not. She was killed because there are trigger happy law enforcement officials who have the ability to escape any and all responsibility of wrongful killing by simply claiming to fear for their own lives, regardless of whether or not that onset of fear is well grounded.

In such an execution of a no knock warrant, the law enforcement officers were already in a warlike state of mind. That state of mind is cultivated. Having it all the time has become the norm. That is a problem when you're in a position that is supposed to protect and serve the civilian population.

You do not protect and serve enemies of war.

Do other people get shot in no-knock raids? — Outlander

One study put that between 1981 and 2006 roughly 40 innocent people were killed in no-knock raids. If there's tens of thousands of no-knock raids, that's pretty high still. Likely the stats aren't precise.

But unfortunately many people and the media don't look at this as a problem about police using excessive force, but as a specific problem of the police being racist against blacks. Hence things like a man shot while sleeping in an no-knock raid earlier this year doesn't get much media coverage as the person wasn't black (and it happened before the George Floyd killing).

The Trump campaign is reportedly 'discussing contingency plans to bypass election results'

President Trump's campaign is discussing "contingency plans" that would involve bypassing the result of November's election, reports The Atlantic.

The report delves into possible scenarios if Trump apparently loses the 2020 presidential election but doesn't concede, noting that although we're used to electors being selected based on the popular vote, "nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way." Citing Republican Party sources, The Atlantic says that Trump's campaign is "discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority."

The campaign would reportedly assert that this step was necessary due to claims of supposed voter fraud, which experts have noted is extraordinarily rare, ahead of the "safe harbor" deadline to appoint 538 electors on Dec. 8.

"Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly," The Atlantic reports. "The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires."

A Trump campaign legal adviser who spoke to The Atlantic said that in this scenario, "the state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state." Lawrence Tabas, chair of the Pennsylvania Republican Party, also told The Atlantic he has discussed the direct appointment of electors with the Trump campaign, saying, "I've mentioned it to them, and I hope they're thinking about it too." The Trump campaign said it is "fighting for a free and fair election."

This potential scenario is just one part of the broader piece in which experts warn "conditions are ripe for a constitutional crisis."

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/200923_FullReport_PetersHSGACWydenFinance.pdf

The Majority staff report released by Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee and Senate Finance Committee Chairmen Ron Johnson and Charles Grassley amplifies discredited allegations that are part of a known Russian campaign to interfere in the 2020 election.

Existence of this campaign has been confirmed by Trump Administration officials. In August 2020, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence publicly warned that Russia is engaged in efforts, including through the use of pro-Russia Ukrainians – particularly known Russian agent Andrii Derkach – to spread claims about corruption to spur investigations into Vice President Biden. In September 2020, the Department of the Treasury sanctioned Mr. Derkach for his role in the Kremlin-directed efforts to promote the same false claims that the Majority report has alleged. The Majority’s investigation is one outcome of Mr. Derkach’s election interference efforts.

Chairman Johnson repeatedly impugned Vice President Biden in public on the basis of secret evidence he claimed to have obtained. Contrary to his public insinuations, the Chairmen’s investigation found no evidence that the former Vice President did anything wrong in his efforts to carry out official U.S foreign policy in Ukraine. This premise was advanced by the Chairmen with the explicit intention of tarnishing Vice President Biden’s reputation and his candidacy for President of the United States, even though it required the Chairmen to discount the testimony of Trump appointees and career Foreign Service officers in favor of Russian-backed conspiracy theories.

Every witness interviewed for this investigation testified that Vice President Biden did not alter United States foreign policy to benefit his son Hunter Biden, and that Hunter Biden’s presence on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma had no effect on U.S. foreign policy. Every witness stated that Hunter Biden and his associates had no role in the formulation of U.S. policy, that Hunter Biden’s role did not influence U.S. foreign policy decisions, and that Vice President Biden carried out U.S. foreign policy in the interest of the United States. The investigation’s evidence, set forth in this Minority report, confirms there was no corruption, wrongdoing, or impropriety on the part of Vice President Biden.

The U.S. policy to condition a loan guarantee in part on the removal of Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin was an anti-corruption measure that received strong, bipartisan support at the time, including from Chairman Johnson. Chairmen Johnson and Grassley did not raise any concerns related to Hunter Biden’s position on the board of Burisma until Vice President Biden became a top tier presidential candidate. Once Vice President Biden became the presumptive Democratic nominee, the Majority escalated their politically motivated investigation in an effort to damage his prospects as a challenger to President Trump in the 2020 presidential election.

She was killed because there are trigger happy law enforcement officials who have the ability to escape any and all responsibility of wrongful killing by simply claiming to fear for their own lives — creativesoul

I find this response interesting, because it doesn't necessarily say any of the cops involved were "trigger happy" or otherwise use lethal city property irresponsibly or otherwise say anyone did anything wrong or say it wasn't just an accident. You seem to be speaking of a culture of abuse of privilege. Understand it is not really privilege. You risk your life, sometimes often several times a day, for a barely average salary. That aside, the average simpleton may not understand the damage police misconduct, especially when injuries or death occur, can cause to the social fabric unchecked, but the commissioner should. And should act when needed.

the law enforcement officers were already in a warlike state of mind. That state of mind is cultivated. Having it all the time has become the norm. — creativesoul

In addition to my above response, it depends on the area. Big city, high crime begets prick cops. Which isn't far from understandable. Even if they get breaks, there are no sure things. You could get shot and killed, probably hurt really bad beforehand "just because" for again an average salary- and if you screw up- you might face decades in jail under Color of Law violations- with people you really don't want to be in a cell with. These aren't fun thoughts to have. I've always considered myself a law and order man but even I feel- or at least notice how some would- when I see a cop car drive by and I happen to be going a little over the speed limit or had a beer or two in the past few hours. It's not like flipping burgers or answering sales calls.

You do not protect and serve enemies of war. — creativesoul

Uh? What century are we living in, boss? We're all citizens now, cops are all public servants, and we're all entitled to change just about anything about the law using the democratic process. Majority has more power sure, but unless you're a minority here that doesn't have a country somewhere where you are the majority (which everyone does) .. there's really no need to cry over spilled milk. Just enjoy the ride.

Are you suggesting there's some "secret group" of officers that are enemies of the Constitution and the United States of America? That'd be something. I hope you don't mean the idea of a constable, guard or "bobby" in general .. that's pretty fundamental to any civilized society.

Oh, the irony. Try to find evidence of corruption in the Obama administration, actually find evidence of corruption in the Trump administration:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rjMIoKEf9vJWAq3njMv9beyJfpd88b-2/view

Dear Inspector General Donaldson:

The United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs (HSGAC) and the United States Senate Committee on Finance (SFC) are concluding an investigation into potential conflicts of interest related to executive branch officials who are responsible for carrying out the United States Government’s foreign policy in Ukraine.

Witness testimony in this investigation has directly implicated former Secretary Rick Perry in alleged wrongdoing and the Department more broadly in a scheme to undermine anti-corruption efforts that were implemented by Ukraine in partnership with the international community.

...

On September 17, 2020, as part of the HSGAC and SFC investigation, a current international member of the Naftogaz advisory board testified to our committees that former Secretary Perry inappropriately pressured the Ukrainian government to place Robert Bensh on the Naftogaz advisory board while Department of Energy officials were also pressuring the Ukrainian government to sign a memorandum of understanding with a private business entity connected to Mr. Bensh, “Louisiana Natural Gas Exports,” (LNGE).

According to the witness testimony, DOE officials pressured Ukrainian government officials to sign the MOU with LNGE during a September 2019 summit in Warsaw, Poland, where the United States and Poland signed an agreement with Ukraine to provide the country regassified US LNG via Poland.

...

According to witness testimony in the HSGAC-SFC investigation, Secretary Perry also pressured the Ukrainian government to place one of Perry’s longtime campaign supporters, Michael Bleyzer, on the Naftogaz advisory board during his trip to Ukraine for President Zelensky’s inauguration in 2019. Public reporting indicates that only one week later, “Bleyzer and his partner Alex Cranberg submitted a bid to drill for oil and gas at a sprawling government-controlled site called Varvynska. They offered millions of dollars less to the Ukrainian government than their only competitor for the drilling rights, according to internal Ukrainian government documents obtained by The Associated Press.” The Naftogaz advisory board member also testified to this matter, “Mr. Bleyzer's contract that he was awarded was despite the fact that he was not highest bidder in that process. Other... bids were higher, and therefore, Ukraine chose a bid that paid itself less.” Naftogaz has since filed a lawsuit seeking to overturn the awarding of the license to Mr. Bleyzer’s company, alleging that the Ukrainian government acted “illegally and with bias” in agreeing to the deal.

...

Respectfully,

Ron Wyden
Ranking Member

Hence things like a man shot while sleeping in an no-knock raid earlier this year doesn't get much media coverage as the person wasn't black (and it happened before the George Floyd killing). — ssu

Nice then, that at least the fight for racial justice(equal treatment under the law) has the additional benefit of shining a light upon other problems that are not just about race, but rather about abuse of power.

Perhaps the real problem here is that in a few years whites will be in the minority in the US. More whites are dying than being born.

I find this response interesting, because it doesn't necessarily say any of the cops involved were "trigger happy" or otherwise use lethal city property irresponsibly or otherwise say anyone did anything wrong or say it wasn't just an accident. — Outlander

Some accidents are the result of trigger happy police officers. The problem is the warlike mindset of police officers during such raids. They are trained like soldiers and use the weapons of close combat, very similar to those used in recent decades as a means for apprehending terrorist suspects, except with domestic cases there is no emphasis upon capturing the individual alive.

You seem to be speaking of a culture of abuse of privilege. — Outlander

Not privilege. Power.

...the law enforcement officers were already in a warlike state of mind. That state of mind is cultivated. Having it all the time has become the norm.
— creativesoul

In addition to my above response, it depends on the area. Big city, high crime begets prick cops. Which isn't far from understandable. Even if they get breaks, there are no sure things. You could get shot and killed, probably hurt really bad beforehand "just because" for again an average salary- and if you screw up- you might face decades in jail under Color of Law violations- with people you really don't want to be in a cell with. These aren't fun thoughts to have. — Outlander

Of course those are not fun thoughts to have. Being a police officer carries along with it the increased danger of losing one's life from dealing with certain people/suspects that are capable of killing officers. That is a very well known and accepted risk... it's part of the job. One who cannot deal with that increased risk without being able to distinguish between those who pose such a risk, and those who do not ought not become a police officer.

But you're missing the point here. Not everyone is an enemy. The overwhelming majority of citizens, including blacks, pose no such danger to the lives of police officers. Moreover, when someone is both unarmed and running away from the police, they cannot pose an immediate danger to the police.

You do not protect and serve enemies of war.
— creativesoul

Uh? What century are we living in, boss? We're all citizens now, cops are all public servants, and we're all entitled to change just about anything about the law using the democratic process. Majority has more power sure, but unless you're a minority here that doesn't have a country somewhere where you are the majority (which everyone does) .. there's really no need to cry over spilled milk. Just enjoy the ride. — Outlander

You're missing the point. The actual police training and weapons used by police forces is far too close as being the same as military training against enemy combatants. The job of law enforcement officers is to protect and serve the citizens of the community not defeat them in a warlike setting. Those two mindsets are incompatible, regardless of the century one lives in. One does not protect and serve the best interests of one's own enemies. Police officers across the land have been taught using military style mindsets and weapons. The no knock warrants are a prima facie example.

You're clearly not black. The spilled milk here is blood. The analogy is proof of the disconnection you have with the reality of being black in America. You simply do not understand, or do not care. I'll grant the former and be charitable at this time. Justice delayed is justice denied. It's been delayed for far too long. Your idealistic viewpoint suggests that we're all entitled to change what needs changed by using the democratic process.

The reality is that it is not nearly so easy. That's been the fight for hundreds of years. Now, however, it seems that there is an ever increasing white portion of people joining the movement. The majority is no longer divided upon racial lines, but rather upon empathetic ones. There are more and more people who have personal reasons to be deeply offended by the idea of having racists in power, because more and more average everyday white people have non white friends, family members, and loved ones.

The time for the right kinds of change has come. It is now.

being able to distinguish between those who pose such a risk, and those who do not — creativesoul

Everyone poses a risk to you if they happen to be committing/guilty of a crime and it's your job to stop it or apprehend them. Just because someones standing around whistling with their hands in their pockets doesn't mean they're not. A person with baggy clothing easily capable of concealing a weapon along with excessive tattoos and referencing and or listening to violent or gang related music is high risk- whether or not certain groups of people have been indoctrinated to adopt this is a good question.

when someone is both unarmed and running away from the police, they cannot pose an immediate danger to the police. — creativesoul

Unless the dudes naked there's no saying whether or not a person is armed or not. Sure, no immediate danger. Yeah I understand some black people think cops are going to randomly shoot them for no reason or plant drugs on them (which does happen.. hopefully less now w/ body cams) .. but what would be interesting to know would be how many people who randomly run from police are guilty of something/have something on them they shouldn't. We'll never know.

The job of law enforcement officers is to protect and serve the law-abiding citizens of the community not and as far as criminals defeat them in a warlike any setting. — creativesoul

One does not protect and serve the best interests of one's own enemies. Police officers across the land have been taught using military style mindsets and weapons. — creativesoul

Buddy, so have the criminals, gangsters, mobsters, and crypto-terrorists. You'll be grateful when you don't have your small business shaken down or your favorite sporting event dirty bombed.

You're clearly not black. The spilled milk here is blood. The analogy is proof of the disconnection you have with the reality of being black in America. You simply do not understand, or do not care. I'll grant the former and be charitable at this time. Justice delayed is justice denied. It's been delayed for far too long. Your idealistic viewpoint suggests that we're all entitled to change what needs changed by using the democratic process. — creativesoul

You're right I don't understand. There aren't more of me in the world then there are white people. I don't have one of the largest most beautiful continents on Earth everyone wants to do business in all to myself. Yeah, I'm not black. Let's just be real honest about what's going on here. There are true minorities who are oppressed that this whole 2020 agenda is shifting focus from. Tibetans for their lands (who I'll admit are probably just Asians, who are plentiful). Yemenis for their oil (I suppose the same can be said). Or how about the Native Americans for goodness sake? They all have one thing in common. They don't have enough people (power) for anyone who doesn't care about anything other than their indescribably inconsequential lives to even have the time of day for. Which is unfortunate because you get what you give.

Let's talk about black lives. Countless millions of blacks have been killed in religious civil wars in Africa- more than ANY other white person has killed here combined probably since Columbus. Far more. Yet nobody speaks about it. We're too busy worrying about a few criminals or associates of them who get all day coverage on the news. So who really doesn't understand or doesn't care? Keep your charity, please.

And cigarets don't cause cancer, yes? And those handsome beautiful men in those manly uniforms, they could not possibly do wrong, they're so well-trained and psychologically tested and fit. And all those nasty black people who just want to be murdered, it's all their fault, right? Because that's what all the investigations prove, yes? And even if there were a bad apple, those things just happen, I'm sure you agree. So, nothing wrong here, just move on.

What an unfunny joke you are, nos4.

being able to distinguish between those who pose such a risk, and those who do not
— creativesoul

Everyone poses a risk to you if they happen to be committing/guilty of a crime and it's your job to stop it or apprehend them. Just because someones standing around whistling with their hands in their pockets doesn't mean they're not. A person with baggy clothing easily capable of concealing a weapon along with excessive tattoos and referencing and or listening to violent or gang related music is high risk- whether or not certain groups of people have been indoctrinated to adopt this is a good question. — Outlander

Not everyone poses an equal risk to the officer's life. The inability to effectively distinguish between those who do and those who do not is a huge problem and something that you've just put on display here.

Congratulations, and I am not your buddy.

Let's talk about black lives. Countless millions of blacks have been killed in religious civil wars in Africa- more than ANY other white person has killed here combined probably since Columbus. Far more. Yet nobody speaks about it. We're too busy worrying about a few criminals or associates of them who get all day coverage on the news. So who really doesn't understand or doesn't care? Keep your charity, please. — Outlander

More prima facie evidence of the disconnect.

Talk about Black Lives Matter. It is all about the racial injustices that black people are subject to under current American laws and law enforcement practices. Changing the subject is rather... uh... well...

You're right though, perhaps I was being far too charitable.

Do black lives matter?

American cops routinely shoot people in the back, with their hands up, or even lying down - to mention nothing about their routine use of strangulation of those who are prone. This notion that the multitude of murders they commit are a function of their being scared about people 'resisting' is fariytale horse shit made for dupes.

In other news, while American pissants continue to quake in their shitstained boots over fantasies of antifascist violence, Trump supporters are actively planning, with recorded intent, to commit acts of violence and murder among protests:

"Leaked chat logs show Portland-area pro-Trump activists planning and training for violence, sourcing arms and ammunition and even suggesting political assassinations ahead of a series of contentious rallies in the Oregon city, including one scheduled for this weekend. ... [Fascist activists] also claim police cooperation in interstate violence, writing “Yes, going after them at night is the solution… Like we do in other states, tactical ambushes at night while backing up the police are key. You get the leaders and the violent ones and the police are happy to shut their mouths and cameras.” Melchi nevertheless recommends that members disguise themselves to avoid the consequences of homicide. “We must be ready to defend with lethal response… Suggest wearing mask and nothing to identify you on Camera…to prevent any future prosecution.”"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/23/oregon-portland-pro-trump-protests-violence-texts

Leaks thanks to antifa action.

The president has the power to deputize armed militia groups.

Perhaps the real problem here is that in a few years whites will be in the minority in the US. More whites are dying than being born. — Punshhh

This can be interpreted wrong.

The fact is that whites won't be a majority. That is different, because whites still will be the largest racial group in the US. You see, everybody will be then "a minority", which only sounds confusing, as naturally you can divide people so that every group is under 50%.

But yes, some people are somehow worried about this. Call them whatever. In the most peculiar way, some portray Europe to go this route more rapidly even if the US is far more multicultural than the vast majority (if not all) of the European countries.

Perhaps the real problem here is that in a few years whites will be in the minority in the US. More whites are dying than being born. — Punshhh

I always find this point unintentionally hilarious. I mean, gee, would it be like there's something... wrong about... how... minorities... are treated in the US?

Nice then, that at least the fight for racial justice(equal treatment under the law) has the additional benefit of shining a light upon other problems that are not just about race, but rather about abuse of power. — creativesoul

Unfortunately the present discourse is meant to divide us, not to unify us.

Divide et Impera.

Unfortunately the present discourse is meant to divide us, not to unify us. — ssu

I would concur about much of it. No doubt. Some real big problems are left sorely unattended.

They're comedians not journalists according to their own patreon page. We are talking about these guys right? https://www.facebook.com/TheColoredCons/ — Benkei

They use to be Operation Coldfront. If you look through their youtube archives they're actually doing journalism/reporting and they report antifa assaults on numerous occasions (some of these are captured on camera). Are you really going to try to push the thesis that the far left just never gets out of hand? Are you really ready to die on the hill that the far left just doesn't assault journalists, ever? What are they, saints?

And we're not talking about the police but we should. You come up with journalists that aren't journalists to prove a point that doesn't exist. I'm pointing you to the actual problem--> a police force that's either dumb enough to attack journalists or so insulated from repercussions that they think they can get away with it. Probably a combination of both. — Benkei

I don't defend the police 100% I think most of the country is on board with some type of reform whether that means more training or better oversight.... It's just a different discussion and tbh this discussion is already super long and I don't really feel like making it longer but I'm definitely on board with some reforms.

The guy is a troll a verified liar and a likely criminal. As a result, I'm on the fence as to whether it was wrong to hit him in the face. Seems fair play to me. The guy who hit him should pay a fine though because he broke the law. — Benkei

And no I didn't see his medical records. But as I explained, if someone claims SHA and is up and about the next day, then he doesn't have SHA, he's simply lying. I don't need to see his medical records for that - all I need to do is google! — Benkei

Alright, we've actually found a difference in values between us here. Even if Ngo is a verified liar and troll I'd never support initiating violence against him. In America we can sue for cases like this. I'm a little alarmed that you seem to support a mob descending on a someone looking to document the far left... but I don't know, if you're fine with mobs initiating violence against people - in this case a physically small gay minority - then I don't know what else to say here. I guess we can move on. Us arguing over the extent of his injuries is somewhat ridiculous. In America you're free to deny the holocaust. You're free to compare antifa to stalinist murderers. It doesn't matter - we don't attack people even if they're maliciously lying.

You're happy to extend a definition to fit your preconceived conclusions. Check. — Benkei

You're chasing ghosts with Antifa. — Benkei

It's not about my preconceived notions, this is about how to best handle the word "antifa". I'm honestly leaving the choice up to you as to how to proceed: If you want me to use "antifa and the far left" because you want to doubt the extent of antifa we can do that. My general target here is really just the militant far left. I don't care if they have an antifa membership card or not.

I don't think antifa is a centrally-organized group. Maybe they have small, local organizations but if we're talking about who shows up at marches and who marches under the banner and who identifies with the ideology our conception of antifa can expand. I think it's best to describe it as more of a movement, with the black clad marchers as a part of the movement rather than an official member of an organization.

I have problems associating "far left" with white supremacy and patriotism. Seems like a typical right wing thing to me. — Benkei

I've never associated the far left with white supremacy or patriotism.

That’s not to say that excessive force isn’t real, but while the delusional are off pretending, without evidence, that race figures into these split-second decisions, there are real things they could be teaching to mitigate that risk. Complying with police is the most obvious. — NOS4A2

I think the evidence has been presented to you already, as statistics. The delusional are those who refuse to accept the evidence. A white man is likely to get punched for what is called "resisting arrest", but very rarely would one get killed in such a situation. The killing, if it occurred, would be accidental. But a person of colour is much more likely to get killed for "resisting arrest" than a white person.

The evidence indicates that your so-called "split-second decisions", when an officer is dealing with an uncooperative individual, are not split-second decisions at all, but premeditated acts. Deal with a white person with a couple punches, deal with a black person with a couple slugs. Don't kid yourself, the police know how to forcibly restrain, without killing.

I accept the evidence, just not your conclusions. I do not think we can deduce racism as a cause of death from the mere fact of the skin-colors of those involved, especially with the myriad other important situational factors of any police interaction. This reeks to me of correspondence bias. I need more than that.

I am as interested in police shooting disparities between races as I am between men and women, young and old, fat and thin, which is to say not very much. I say this because each police shooting has its own context, actors, environments, history. No amount of faulty generalization can be rid of them.




I think one can make reasonable assumptions about another’s beliefs. I just don’t think you’ve made any reasonable assumptions. Since you claim to know, and based on your pattern-reading, can you paraphrase a single racist belief or principle he holds?

A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014

The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being {black, unarmed, and shot by police} is about 3.49 times the probability of being {white, unarmed, and shot by police} on average.

...

As such, the results of this study provide evidence that there is racial bias in police shootings that is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates, and is related to either: 1) racial bias in police encountering suspects/civilians, or 2) racial bias by police in the use of force upon encountering suspects/civilians.