It's not true?

Well, shit. I thought it was cool that they would do so... — creativesoul

Sorry, it's not. That might be a bit much. There's a broader movement in the UK away from celebrating persons involved in the slave trade. Hume, it is claimed, is such a person. The university has temporarily removed his moniker pending review, and is now known simply by its address: 40 George Square.

No worries. It would be cool though.

No worries. It would be cool though. — creativesoul

I don't agree. George Floyd has no relationship with Edinburgh University and them using his name would be exploitative of his death imo. He was a victim of a particularly American cultural problem. The people who need to see their sons and daughters and grandsons and granddaughters grow up in a place that honours George Floyd are people like NOS. And may it break their cold hearts.

I meant as a show of support for the movement itself. I doubt anyone would take offense for that.

Well that certainly proves you read right-wing trash. Not that there was doubt.

My mistake. The university cites the killing of George Floyd in the same statement regarding the renaming to George square. I made a false connection.

Amy coney Barrett has been confirmed as the SCOTUS nominee.

Good to see the GOP spending their time upon what's most important right now...

Nevermind eliminating and/or at least easing all of the economic, emotional, and physical injury to everyday Americans as a result of the pandemic, which was not at all a result of anything that the average citizen has done, but is most certainly the result of government.

...pledging to increase access to capital in Black communities by nearly $500 billion...

Sometime soon... perhaps in the next week or two...

Wonder who - exactly - will be granted such access. Is "My pillow" building a factory there?

Good to see the GOP spending their time upon what's most important right now...

Nevermind eliminating and/or at least easing all of the economic, emotional, and physical injury to everyday Americans as a result of the pandemic, which was not at all a result of anything that the average citizen has done, but is most certainly the result of government.

That is certainly true of government. Except it is state, local and tribal governments that set their own health policies. The federal government is limited in its ability to mandate a centralized action plan by design. So if we are to blame governments and politicians, let’s be sure we blame the correct ones.

It is only the federal government than can relieve the injuries. Don't kid yourself. They have not. That's the point.

Aren't these fears a little too... well... crazy? If Trump loses, he loses. The biggest problem is surely American patriotism. A vote against a sitting President, even one as demonstrably moronic and owned as Bush Jr, is no sure thing. — Kenosha Kid

I don't think the fears are crazy. He expressly doesn't want to commit a peaceful transfer of power if he loses the vote and can get away with it. From the Atlantic piece @Maw linked earlier:

The Trump-campaign legal adviser I spoke with told me the push to appoint electors would be framed in terms of protecting the people’s will. Once committed to the position that the overtime count has been rigged, the adviser said, state lawmakers will want to judge for themselves what the voters intended.

“The state legislatures will say, ‘All right, we’ve been given this constitutional power. We don’t think the results of our own state are accurate, so here’s our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state,’ ” the adviser said. Democrats, he added, have exposed themselves to this stratagem by creating the conditions for a lengthy overtime.

“If you have this notion,” the adviser said, “that ballots can come in for I don’t know how many days—in some states a week, 10 days—then that onslaught of ballots just gets pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. So pick your poison. Is it worse to have electors named by legislators or to have votes received by Election Day?”

As I understand it: the play they're making is based on the idea that in person voting is deemed to skew in favour of Republicans (hence all the mail ballot lies, and GOP reps asking if people voted early @frank), and giving the Democrats a choice between breaking the transfer of the presidency in a huge way that will probably skew Republican and a more minor way that will probably skew Republican... The Democrats being forced to choose between radically breaking procedure and compromising their power with a slightly milder break of procedure, their track record suggests they will choose procedure over power any day of the week. "You go high, we go low!"

The narrative seems to be that mail in ballots "rig the election" in a close call, so that launders support for the Republicans making that anti-democratic power play. Why anti-democratic? Spelling it out explicitly; it looks like either the GOP has made plans to ignore some of the votes or all of the votes, and if that wasn't enough it's entirely for reasons of power. Ignoring votes for reasons of continued power - not good.

The rest of the fash stuff is also there: federal troops being deployed to crush protests, unmarked officers disappearing people in vans, outright endorsement by state law enforcement of protester murder by white supremacist militiamen.

So I don't think the fear is crazy, no.

The narrative seems to be that mail in ballots "rig the election" in a close call, so that launders support for the Republicans making that anti-democratic power play. — fdrake

I don't doubt a close call election can be stolen; it seems to me that's already happened. But who cares? If Trump loses by 1%, that's still an electorate too stupid not to deserve Trump since despite all evidence that he is a moron and a criminal:

in person voting is deemed to skew in favour of Republicans — fdrake

who've been on a race to the bottom for decades (Reagan, Bush Jr, Trump... next up, a lump of crusty mucus). If he loses by 10%, there's no way you can turn a loss into win. Republican judges are still judges. If the evidence says that Trump lost and there's no wiggle room for interpretation, Trump lost.

The problem is an electorate that can see what's happening and still vote him into a position where he can contest an election and the SC potential could read the result as a win for Trump.

The problem is an electorate that can see what's happening and still vote him into a position where he can contest an election and the SC potential could read the result as a win for Trump. — Kenosha Kid

Well, there's more than one problem then. Whether people are stupid is a different concern from encroaching fascism and the risk of it.

Well, there's more than one problem then. Whether people are stupid is a different concern from encroaching fascism and the risk of it. — fdrake

We had a similar thing in the UK with Brexit. The leavers won 51:49%. Because David Gammeron was too thickly cut to consider the possibility that the majority might be comparable to the sort of result variance that would be time-averaged out, we were stuck unable to contest what ought to have been a highly contestable result.

But this is a very goal-centric view. Ultimately, half the country wants to self-destruct in the name of a white Britain. That's the real problem, not the one percent either way. Same with Trump. I don't see much difference, in terms of the pulse of the populus, between him losing by 1 state and successfully contesting the result and him winning by one state, and I don't see even Republican judges voting outright for fascism by overturning the result of state after state. The root problem is you have half of the population who do not believe that their President need be lawful, moral, intelligent, competent or effective, that such imperviousness to outcomes might be relied upon by those with fascist inclinations like Trump.

The system could be better, but I think it protects against outright fascism, although it's easy to see how that can be inverted over time. If and when fascism properly takes hold, it won't be some dark coup: the people will vote it in. That's what I'd bet on were I betting man.

The problem is an electorate that can see what's happening and still vote him into a position where he can contest an election and the SC potential could read the result as a win for Trump. — Kenosha Kid

It's not a normal election year. A lot of people are still self-isolating to protect themselves and their families. Voting early would be ideal for the majority and the government of my swing state has been sending out ballot request forms. I received three of them along with text messages encouraging me to fill out the forms. I did receive mine and I had it witnessed and ready to take to the post office when a Republican canvasser (plus fdrake) inspired me to look closer.

I've since discovered that fear about early voting is pretty widespread. People think there's a risk that mail-in ballots will be thrown out.

So if Republicans didnt do anything else, they have already succeeded in creating fear and confusion which works in their favor. They have given some the impression that it's either risk getting covid (which will be death for some) or don't bother voting. As Hanover points out, it's politics.

The system could be better, but I think it protects against outright fascism, although it's easy to see how that can be inverted over time. If and when fascism properly takes hold, it won't be some dark coup: the people will vote it in. That's what I'd bet on were I betting man. — Kenosha Kid

:up:

If and when it happens? Tesco's law of fash encroachment: every little helps! Muslim ban, state endorsement of white supremacist militiamen vigilantes murdering people, undermining political process and news institutions, unmarked officers disappearing dissenters in vans, the president calling for more violence against immigrants and dissenters in speeches, planned heightening of voter suppression, planned electoral disruption, federal troops dispatched to quell dissent... There should not be an ellipsis here.

I think this regime's well past the ur fascism stage. It looks to me like more of a tipping point. If enough consent for all this can be manufactured, it will get worse. It keeps getting worse. Remember when having a president that committed sexual assault was news? And when the Republicans blocked the appointment of a supreme court judge for purely partisan reasons? And when armed far right militiamen blocked the entrance to a government building and received an endorsement? Seems like a tamer time. It was. We're getting desensitised.

That's part of the encroachment I think, things that were scandalous a few years ago are not now. We've got a new frame for what is normal conduct.

We had a similar thing in the UK with Brexit. The leavers won 51:49%. Because David Gammeron was too thickly cut to consider the possibility that the majority might be comparable to the sort of result variance that would be time-averaged out, we were stuck unable to contest what ought to have been a highly contestable result. — Kenosha Kid

Yes. (Also, the physicist is strong in you)

So if Republicans didnt do anything else, they have already succeeded in creating fear and confusion which works in their favor. They have given some the impression that it's either risk getting covid (which will be death for some) or don't bother voting. As Hanover points out, it's politics. — frank

Win win really, they'll have to suppress less votes!

We had a similar thing in the UK with Brexit. The leavers won 51:49%. Because David Gammeron was too thickly cut to consider the possibility that the majority might be comparable to the sort of result variance that would be time-averaged out, we were stuck unable to contest what ought to have been a highly contestable result.

Yes, Cameron was naive, he didn't realise how much anti-EU sentiment had been developing beneath the surface over the previous 12 years. He was Boyed up with the arrogance that he had won the Scottish Independence referendum and would win the Brexit referendum in the same way. There was little thought of losing it and what the consequence would be. It was a fatal flaw to leave to a simple majority, it should have been a super majority of 60%, or more for a win. Once the referendum was called the right wing populist machine went into overdrive and forced the vote through on paranoia, misinformation and false promises.

Now we have an equivalent to Trump in the UK, with the same worrying trends emerging. Even today it has been leaked that Paul Dacre the disgraced former editor of the Daily Mail, is being groomed for chairman of Ofcom. And a former editor of The Telegraph for director general of the BBC. With Government Ministers on the media this morning saying that it's time for right wing biased media in the UK. This administration is gunning for the BBC in a big way.

My take on it is that the economy has been in trouble since the financial crisis of 2008. People are starting to think of alternatives to free market capitalism, which has spooked the Conservative base and the big money backers of the party. They have all feathered their nests for a generation and now the rot has set in to the economy and the country, they don't want to give away any of their wealth to help put it right and the younger generation is turning left on mass. The Conservative party is heading for oblivion, which will allow socialists into office. Once that happens the game is up and the wealth will be clawed back for the good of the whole country. The solution in the eyes of these Conservatives is a lurch to the right with maximum acceleration of rightwing ideology and policies to force the country to the right and hoodwink the population into believing it is the only way to govern. It is high stakes and combined with the disastrous Brexit situation there is going to be much gnashing of teeth and upheaval over the next few years.

P.s. I have copied this into the Brexit thread.

So if Republicans didnt do anything else, they have already succeeded in creating fear and confusion which works in their favor. They have given some the impression that it's either risk getting covid (which will be death for some) or don't bother voting. As Hanover points out, it's politics. — frank

I agree with this. Casting doubt on the election result at all prior to the election constitutes election meddling. And Trump is a fascist, that is clear.

But is the concern here that smart Democrat voters will be safe and vote by mail knowing this is precisely what will be under attack, while stupid Republican voters will be dumb and vote in person? And that the SC will vote to institute fascism using this and a claim from the most unreliable and overtly criminal President in history as a basis, forgetting their entire careers just to make a delusional manbaby happy?

I don't buy it. If the postal vote is more significant this year, I think that makes it much less likely that the SC will dismiss it.

But worse case scenario there's 4 more years because of this. At least 100,000 dead Republicans won't be voting ever again.

don't buy it. If the postal vote is more significant this year, I think that makes it much less likely that the SC will dismiss it. — Kenosha Kid

A Republican acquaintance thinks the GOP will be looking for technicalities that were overlooked in years past. She will vote in person because she wants to "make sure they get my vote." I think a conservative SC would steer clear of the bigger picture and focus on minutiae.

A Republican acquaintance thinks the GOP will be looking for technicalities that were overlooked in years past. She will vote in person because she wants to "make sure they get my vote." I think a conservative SC would steer clear of the bigger picture and focus on minutiae. — frank

I wonder how they'll rationalise fending off any challenge to Trump's election, which would be the obvious response. The use and misuse of voting machines in 2016 was astounding.

I wonder how they'll rationalise fending off any challenge to Trump's election, which would be the obvious response. The use and misuse of voting machines in 2016 was astounding. — Kenosha Kid

Rationalizing is their superpower. The best challenge to Trump's election would be some C4 in a ballpoint pen. :fire:

Casting doubt on the election result at all prior to the election constitutes election meddling. And Trump is a fascist, that is clear. — Kenosha Kid

It is common to blame Trump in undermining the trust in the integrity of the upcoming elections, and, consequently, destroying democracy. It is impossible to deny that Trump plays politics of fear and replaces rational political conviction by the appeal to inchoate feelings and emotions. Yet , we must admit that another side shares equal responsibility. Thus, Hillary Clinton called Biden not to concede ‘under any circumstances'. Also, on August 3rd, TIP, primarily pro-Biden institute, published report. It should be considered as the self-fulfilling prophecy information operation: any result of the elections will probably be regarded as illegitimate and lead to civil unrest.

“"Planners need to take seriously the notion that this may well be a street fight, not a legal battle; technocratic solutions, courts, and a reliance on elites observing norms are not the answer here."
"Groups, coalitions, and networks should be preparing now to establish the necessary communications and organizing infrastructure to support mass mobilization."
"If there is a crisis, events will unfold quickly, and sleep-deprived leaders will be asked to make consequential decisions quickly. Thinking through options now will help to ensure better decisions"
The Dems also maintain the narrative of the illegitimacy of the possible elections results.

It is common to blame Trump in undermining the trust in the integrity of the upcoming elections, and, consequently, destroying democracy. It is impossible to deny that Trump plays politics of fear and replaces rational political conviction by the appeal to inchoate feelings and emotions. Yet , we must admit that another side shares equal responsibility. Thus, Hillary Clinton called Biden not to concede ‘under any circumstances'. Also, on August 3rd, TIP, primarily pro-Biden institute, published report. — Number2018

What are you saying here? That when the POTUS declares he will contest the election if he loses, he intends to discount votes that don't tend to go the desired way, he even incites his own voters to commit voter fraud, everyone else has to pretend that it's going to be business as usual?

What are you saying here? That when the POTUS declares he will contest the election if he loses, he intends to discount votes that don't tend to go the desired way, he even incites his own voters to commit voter fraud, everyone else has to pretend that it's going to be business as usual? — Kenosha Kid

I am not saying that it is going to be business as usual. I am saying that all sides play politics of fear and affect: there is almost no place for reasoned positions built around rational interests.

I am not saying that it is going to be business as usual. I am saying that all sides play politics of fear and affect: there is almost no place for reasoned positions built around rational interests. — Number2018

Well, that's true. Media thrives on fear and politics, and politicians thrive on media. But when you have a POTUS who is vocally attempting to subvert democracy, that does seem to be a reasonable thing to panic about.

My mistake. The university cites the killing of George Floyd in the same statement regarding the renaming to George square. I made a false connection. — NOS4A2

You're not the only one that made the mistake, some newspapers seem to have made the error also. The building is is next to George Square and hence it is named 40 George Square, which is right next to 50 George Square.

Yet perhaps this is a great example of the "decolonization" of philosophy: Hume encouraged in a letter Lord Hertford to buy a plantation in Grenada and lent money to another person that did acquired plantations in the Caribbean. Hence David Hume seems to be the one of the ideological pillars of the slave trade by these acts, at least according to prof Waldmann:

'His (Hume's) views served without doubt to fortify the institution of racialised slavery in the later eighteenth and early nineteenth century.

'More importantly, the fact that he was involved in the slave trade is now a matter of record. He was not deferential to social convention and he was aware of the widespread denunciation of slavery by his contemporaries.

'Anyone possessed of Hume's talents would recognise the obvious enormity of slavery. But Hume endorsed slavery; indeed, he justified it.

(See article)

Hume was indeed a racist, even if some scholars point out he was against slavery (see here). And just how widespread was the denunciation of slavery at that time, I'm not sure.

How do these views effect the other things Hume said? After all, there's a huge quantity of non-interesting stuff that prominent philosophers and scientists wrote that we don't read and refer to. Yet the cheap but typical rebuttal in our time would be to disregard Hume "But he was a racist and I don't like racists". So off with the racist Enlightenment!

I can see how it would be difficult to consider two facts together if you have a walnut-sized brain. — Maw

You and others didn't get my point, but anyway, must be my walnut-sized brain.

Yet hard to understand why this urge to divide people, to make an event that had widespread condemnation at first into a polarized issue. It only serves the present power structures to stay intact.

It only serves the present power structures to stay intact. — ssu

You don't even live in America

Many don't, that participate on the PF. (Even if I did spent few years in my childhood there and last time I was there was last year.)

Yet that's the argument what people can discuss?

Yet hard to understand why this urge to divide people, to make an event that had widespread condemnation at first into a polarized issue. — ssu

Fuck off you rat, you're the lunatic whose first reponse to having mentioned the riddling of an autistic boy with police bullets was BuT hE wAsNt BlaCk! Don't pretend to be above this shit when you perpetuate it.