Where is the university? All you've shown me are buildings and grounds and students and faculty and books and equipment. Where in all of that is the university you promised to show me? — Pfhorrest
evolution is not, nor could be, a random process — Kenosha Kid
Can anyone predict the next mutation? And how this mutation will play out? — Olivier5
The generation of genetic 'noise' as you say is what powers evolution. — Olivier5
noise is important to practically solving numerical optimisation problems, but no one would describe it as the thing "powering" that optimisation — Kenosha Kid
we can take that as a given. — Kenosha Kid
And without it, evolution would work. I rest my case. — Olivier5
optimisation problems — Kenosha Kid
Evolution is not just a question of adapting to an environment. It's about adapting to and competing in a constantly changing environment. The environment changes for a number of reasons, including of course the effect of life and evolution themselves on it. — Olivier5
So your noise generation is random, and the algorithm with which you process it is randomly changing at all times. — Olivier5
You're still using random as a synonym for unpredictable. And it is still irrelevant to my point. — Kenosha Kid
Darwinism is not a theory of random chance. It is a theory of random mutation plus non-random cumulative natural selection.
Natural selection is a non-random force, pushing towards improvement. — Richard Dawkins (Climbing Mt Improbable)
Mutation is random; natural selection is the very opposite of random.
Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators. — Richard Dawkins (The Blind Watchmaker)
What Darwin did was to discover the only known alternative to random chance which is natural selection — Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion)
I have read and rebutted Dawkins's nonsense — Dfpolis
A 'superior data processing and response' system must include self-reference. — Olivier5
This requires a mental 3D map, the modelisation of movements within that 3D map, and therefore I think some sense of self vs the rest of the world. — Olivier5
Self preservation requires a sense of self. — Olivier5
Dawkins who takes great pains to explain that evolution is not, nor could be, a random process, you charlatan. — Kenosha Kid
have read Dawkins, and I stand by my claim. I said neither that evolution is entirely random, nor that Dawkins claimed that it was. If you read my paper, you would know that. — Dfpolis
Data means something. It's provided by the senses, and it therefore refers to the world out there, or rather to our perception of it.There is no warrant for imbuing data processing systems, whether organic or artificial with such human attributes. To do so is anthropomorphizing them. — Dfpolis
Logically, it does... To protect something, one needs to be aware of that something.Self preservation requires a sense of self.
— Olivier5
No, it does not. — Dfpolis
Data means something. It's provided by the senses, and it therefore refers to the world out there, or rather to our perception of it. — Olivier5
To protect something, one needs to be aware of that something — Olivier5
I read the part of your paper that claimed that philosophical naturalists characterise evolution as a purely random process, which is a lie. — Kenosha Kid
(emphasis added)Life results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators. — Richard Dawkins (The Blind Watchmaker)
Yeah but somebody keyed it in, or connected to the computer a camera or another sensor, itself designed by some folk at pointed somewhere by another. Data means "given" and it's given by something or somebody. There's always a source to the data and it is always collected for a reason or another.Data in a computer is simply a physical state, typically accumulations of electrons or sets of magnetic orientations. — Dfpolis
Rocks are not been chased by predators. It's easier for them.Overlaying rocks protect underlying rocks without a hint of intent or awareness. — Dfpolis
I read the part of your paper that claimed that philosophical naturalists characterise evolution as a purely random process, which is a lie.
— Kenosha Kid
Yes you wrote a lie. You can quote nothing in my paper saying that — Dfpolis
Philosophical naturalists claim macroevolution shows order emerging by pure chance.
Yeah but somebody keyed it in, or connected to the computer a camera or another sensor, itself designed by some folk at pointed somewhere by another. Data means "given" and it's given by something or somebody. There's always a source to the data and it is always collected for a reason or another. — Olivier5
Rocks are not been chased by predators. It's easier for them. — Olivier5
Superior animals look purposefully for data, in an active manner, they don't collect them passively. They are looking. This indicates an awareness of the world out there and of their presence in it.It may be that some other species has consciousness, perhaps porpoises. If so, it is not because they can process data, but because they are aware of some of the data they process. — Dfpolis
Philosophical naturalists claim macroevolution shows order emerging by pure chance.
The very first sentence!!! — Kenosha Kid
Superior animals look purposefully for data, in an active manner, they don't collect them passively. They are looking. This indicates an awareness of the world out there and of their presence in it. — Olivier5
All data has a source and a cost (beyond the most basic and passive systems) and therefore it has a darwinian advantage, or it wouldn't be collected and analysed in the first place. — Olivier5
There's no data without some import or another, and therefore there's no data without some possibility of a referent. Data is always about something, or it won't get collected by a living organism at all. — Olivier5
What you are saying is that the mental system of a porpoise or donkeys may not include this mirror effect we call consciousness. — Olivier5
I'm making that up as I speak of course. Still chewing on it. — Olivier5
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