Some states allocate electors based on the national popular vote. So yes, if you want Biden, vote Biden. — frank

No states do that yet. There is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact where a bunch of states have agreed to do that, but only when there's enough of them on board that that would actually decide the election.

Yeah if you put that much emotional and symbolic attachment to the act of pushing a button at the voting booth (or by mail), which I find quite bizarre and pathetic really. — Saphsin

Are you aware of the function elected officials are meant to serve? It is not an immediate matter of pushing a button. It is actually quite significant, in theory.

It's just to prefer one or the other as President.

I voted for a Labour MP, not because I support him, but because I didn't want his Conservative opponent to win (and these were the only likely winners). — Michael

Voting has a little more significance than simply being a preference.

And that's a real great reason to vote for someone, because you want the opponent to lose. Tell me, are you aware of the function elected officials are meant to serve?

Oh. Misunderstood that. Thanks.

You're missing the point. Yeah I find it much more preferable to spend the next 4 years fighting against Biden than Trump, those are the physical consequences. It doesn't mean I symbolically support Biden. And even if you desperately squeeze an argument otherwise, the fact that you care about such implications instead of the political consequences on people's lives means you're pathetic. Politics is about satisfying your ego and your sensual interpretation of events instead of what happens in the real world.

Voting has a little more significance than simply being a preference. — Merkwurdichliebe

Perhaps to some, but not to everyone.

And that's a real great reason to vote for someone, because you want the opponent to lose. Tell me, are you aware of the function elected officials are meant to serve? — Merkwurdichliebe

To legislate. And if the choice is between the candidate of a party that will legislate in ways I strongly disagree with and the candidate of a party that will legislate in ways I somewhat disagree with then I will vote for the candidate of the second party because I don't want the candidate of the first party to win and to subsequently legislate in ways I strongly disagree with.

Looking at the map on that link I just posted, I just realized how very very close that compact is to taking effect. If any ONE of the following states joins, in addition to those already joined (including those pending), it will tip the scales to activation: MN, WI, MI, AZ, IN, TX, TN, GA, NC, or FL.

Additionally, any TWO of NV, UT, IA, KS, OK, AR, LA, MS, AL, KY, NE, WV, or any one of those but the last two plus either ID or ME, would be enough to enact it as well.

Enacting that would basically bypass the electoral college, and in doing so probably doom the Republican party in its entirety, since they haven't won a popular vote in over 30 years.

You're missing the point. Yeah I find it much more preferable to spend the next 4 years against Biden than Trump, those are the physical consequences. It doesn't mean I symbolically support Biden. — Saphsin

In theory, one votes for the candidate that represents his interests. A vote for someone means that you recognize that a candidate will represent you, almost as if you were there yourself. It is a show of support, not so much for the candidate, but for what the candidate believes in, and for the electorate which he represents.

But, in my lifetime, there has neen not one president who has genuinely represented any real interests of the average American citizen.

I don't care about "theory", and I care much less about how I personally “feel” about the theory. I care about what voting actually does to impact the chain of events. Because that's what politics is about, the real world, not this self-fulfilled narrative in your head.

That's why I'm not voting for Biden. — Hanover

Since you brought it up, are you skipping this part of the ballot or voting for Trump... or Kanye?

Tell me, are you aware of the function elected officials are meant to serve?
— Merkwurdichliebe

To legislate. And if the choice is between the candidate of a party that will legislate in ways I strongly disagree with and the candidate of a party that will legislate in ways I somewhat disagree with then I will vote for the candidate of the second party because I don't want the candidate of the first party to win and to subsequently legislate in ways I strongly disagree with. — Michael

Actually, it is to represent the electorate. Presidents don't typically legislate, that is predominantly the job of Congress.

You are simply giving your "go ahead" to people that you disagree with less. But don't mistake it, they don't give a fuck about you or your interests either. It is apparent that you prefer "slow death".

It is apparent that you prefer "slow death". — Merkwurdichliebe

Slow death buys time to escape death.

I don't care about "theory", and I care much less about how I personally feel about the theory. I care about what voting actually does to impact the chain of events. Because that's what politics is about, the real world, not this self-fulfilled narrative in your head. — Saphsin

Then let's dispense with the fantasy, and talk "real world". We have a very particular and real case of voting, it exists in the present world at this period in history, right before our living eyes. Biden and Trump are the candidates in the 2020 us election.

We already can speculate on all the fucked up shit Trump will do if reelected, he has a definitive track record. So tell me, what chain of events will become impacted if Biden is elected?

I wrote a whole post about the differences. And you would know what the differences are if you just read the news and weren’t in denial.

Actually, it is to represent the electorate. Presidents don't typically legislate, that is predominantly the job of Congress. — Merkwurdichliebe

I was referring to my case of voting for a Labour MP over a Conservative MP.

You are simply giving your "go ahead" to people that you disagree with less. But don't mistake it, they don't give a fuck about you or your interests either. It is apparent that you prefer "slow death". — Merkwurdichliebe

I know that they don't. But whether or not they give a fuck about me or my interests isn't the point. The point is that their opponent will legislate in ways that I strongly disagree with, either for ethical reasons or because they will damage some aspect of my life, and so my primary concern is to avoid that outcome.

Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we can't always get what we want. If you want to act on principle and refuse to contribute, or to contribute in a way that has almost no chance of affecting the outcome, then you're free to do so. But I'm more pragmatic than that and would choose to aim for the least bad option. People's actual well-beings are at stake here.

Slow death buys time to escape death. — Pfhorrest

That is to assume there is a means of escape available. That's why I used "death", because of its inevtability, the futility of any attemp at escape.

I dont think any of those states would jeopardize the GOP.

It may be hopeless, but I'm trying anyway (that's literally my motto and the core of my entire philosophical system), and buying time gives more opportunity to try.

I wrote a whole post about the differences. And you would know what the differences are if you just read the news and weren’t in denial. — Saphsin

Can't even give me one ?

And I don't know if you know, but Trump and Biden have much more in common with each other, than they have in common with you or me.

It may be hopeless, but I'm trying anyway (that's literally my motto and the core of my entire philosophical system), and buying time gives more opportunity to try. — Pfhorrest

Nice point, I can't argue.

Sorry you just don’t read the news. One example, the Democrats, as horrid as they are, have been trying to push keeping $600 a week unemployment benefits during COVID as well as a stimulus package, which the Republicans have blocked. Trump completely dismantled pandemic programs that was set up by the previous administration. If you want this to continue onto next year, and you think the Democrats are no different, you’re not anymore informed about basic political facts than those who are taken in by establishment serving corporate propaganda.

Eh, a trillion would have been sent out already but the democrats held out for more. Politics.

I was referring to my case of voting for a Labour MP over a Conservative MP. — Michael

Oh sorry, you know how we Americans are...no one else in the world but us. But their job is to represent their electorate, legislation is merely the political means of representation.

I know that they don't. But whether or not they give a fuck about me or my interests isn't the point. The point is that their opponent will legislate in ways that I strongly disagree with, either for ethical reasons or because they will damage some aspect of my life, and so my primary concern is to avoid that outcome.

Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we can't always get what we want. If you want act on principle and refuse to contribute, or to contribute in a way that has almost no chance of affecting the outcome, then you're free to do so. But I'm more pragmatic than that and would choose to aim for the least bad option. People's actual well-beings are at stake here. — Michael

People's actual well-beings are at stake here. That is Goddamn absolutely on point. I'll tell you this, regardless of who gets elected this season, people's well-being is going to get fucked.

I'll also tell you this...If any candidate you ever vote for is anything close to a shit-sack like Trump or a Biden, he/she will definitely, I guarantee, damage some aspect of your life.

Well, you can go ahead and play with your broken machine, and pretend it will somehow, magically, and miraculously begin to work right. I will continue pointing out how lame it all is.

If you feel shameful for voting, you’re putting waaaay too much emotional and symbolic significance into that one act. Practically contradictory with simultaneously saying voting has no impact. Anyways, real politics is about making actions that make a difference on human lives who feel the impact between different policies (that includes me and my unemployment benefits by the way so fuck anyone can’t read the news and thinks it doesn’t, and it’s incomparably worse for many others), it’s not about your personal pride, so using the word shame shouldn’t even arise. — Saphsin

You misunderstand. It's not about emotion. It's about being responsible, and being complicit, and about the necessity of recognizing that voting entangles you in a system which you owe both yourself and others to extricate yourself from. Voting for a shitbag like Biden puts you in political debt, and marks you as responsible, whether you like it or not, for the millions whose lives will continue to degrade - albeit at a slower pace - under his adminstration were he to win it. I don't think this is a bad thing. Call it the first step of voting anonymous - "I'm X, and I'm a sucker for doing this".

Of course Americans have always been complicit in making the world a worse place to live in, but now's perhaps a chance to actually recognize it.

There are two possibilities, Trump or Biden. A particular political action leads to the difference of a less horrid administration in the future. I have no idea what it means to be complicit in a less worse circumstance. It’s either an incoherent abstraction I don’t care about, or I prefer it.

One example, the Democrats, as horrid as they are, have been trying to push keeping $600 a week unemployment benefits during COVID as well as a stimulus package, which the Republicans have blocked. Trump completely dismantled pandemic programs that was set up by the previous administration. If you want this to continue onto next year, and you think the Democrats are no different, you’re not anymore informed about basic political facts than those who are taken in by establishment serving corporate propaganda. — Saphsin

I haven't paid attention, but I can surmise well enough.

Well if you were using that to convince me, it was counterproductive. I work for a living, and I am ineligible for unemployment benefits because I recieve a regular paycheck. Why would I desire unemployment benefits? So I can pay more taxes out of my already measly income?

And pandemic programs? Fuck pandemic programs. This Covid bullshit is enough for me to be eternally radical on that issue.

So then, I guess I should vote for Trump.

Yeah if you don’t care about how the political differences affect other people, you’re a selfish jerk.

It's about being complict. — StreetlightX

I don't think many voters think of it that way, but that is exactly how it is.

I have no idea what it means to be complicit in a less worse circumstance. — Saphsin

*shrug* If you want to act like voting takes you off the hook then so be it. Enjoy the continued decline of the world which you would be responsible for while pretending you're not.

Yes I am responsible for a less worse administration, and then my responsibility for the rest of the 4 years is fighting against the current administration. There are two available choices. I don’t know where this alternative 3rd reality where I have less political responsibility for the current state of affairs exists, vote abstinence has consequences and that’s what I also have responsibility for if I choose to. This additional political debt thing if you “also” vote is some intangible magical substance you cooked up, not empirical analysis. This is terrible political philosophy.