Perhaps I will understand the practical meaning of your version about 'existence and non-existence' if I will be born again :D — KerimF
For existence to emerge, simple non-existence is enough. — Gus Lamarch
The problem that I noticed in your argument is that you have a personal view of existence and a certain resentment - perhaps - for existence. Obviously, if this is completely supported by your faith, there is no discussion about it, because then is dogma — Gus Lamarch
Do you believe that you're forced to breathe. Or forced to piss? That you wouldn't breathe or piss if you weren't being compelled to do so? Dreaming, breathing and pissing is just part of what we do as humans. Nobody's making us dream, breathe or piss. — Ciceronianus the White
My problem is that I can't accept blindly any idea (scientific or spiritual) provided by another. So yes, I have a personal view of existence (mine and of the world I live in). This view had to be based always on my own observations and analyses. — KerimF
And you are right, the word 'forced' (which I chose deliberately) gives the impression you mentioned here 'resentment'. My intention was just to emphasise that my existence, in the least, wasn't the fruit of certain randomness, hence for no end purpose other than I try my best to stay alive in this world as long as possible. — KerimF
Indeed, I noticed, year after year, that almost all humans I met or knew (theists or atheists) are very satisfied just for knowing how to survive while pleasing their bodies once a while. — KerimF
I think I have to point out that the 'Will' behind Creation, which I perceive, is surely not of one being; otherwise I cannot see my nature as being an image of 'IT', even to some extent. So when someone sees 'IT' as nothing or just one being, he simply describes his deep nature, with or without his knowledge — KerimF
I wonder if you noticed my post about death and afterlife: — KerimF
I am sorry that you are not aware that my parents were just a tool, not the Will which is behind my existence (and their existence as well). — KerimF
Sorry again, because if someone hears you mentioning the word 'God', he would have the impression that you also know what it means. On my side, I am not sure what do YOU mean by (or how YOU define) this word. — KerimF
Still, here you affirm that a "Will" forced you to exist: — Gus Lamarch
We are rational beings, with the ability to fight against our animalistic instincts to give life to the creativity that made us and continues to make us what we are — ambitious and beings of purpose and principle. Letting oneself exist simply to indulge in one's instinctual desires is not the reason why we are counscious of our actions. — Gus Lamarch
If it was not withdrawn directly, your thinking is very much inspired by Christianity. — Gus Lamarch
It seems like you're defining God as the Will behind your existence. But the only will I see for your existence is your parents. I'm assuming your grandparents are out too. Meaning that we're only left with something prior to humanity that has a will, so must be conscious. The usual placeholder for such a being is "God".
If this doesn't fit what you're trying to go for, then I have no idea what you mean by a will outside of humanity. I get that you're trying to be poetic, but it doesn't make any sense if we're to draw any logical conclusions from it. — Philosophim
Perhaps try reading something about mysticism. There's too much ground to cover to answer your question here — FrancisRay
For example, anyone can say "God exists" but how he knows his God is a totally different point. This explains how billions in the world could be called theist while many different images of God (if not gods/goddesses) are offered on the world's table to choose from :) Yes, and these God's images have different God's Laws to be observed by the believers. — KerimF
{A} Being forced to exist implies there is ‘A Will’ behind my existence. — KerimF
{I} This ‘Will’ is perfect and allowed me to exist in this world just to offer me something special/personal. — KerimF
What you want to discuss is a perfect conscious being with a will that made us specifically for us to obtain something special. Again, this is just another philosophical God, with the same problems and issues that all other philosophical Gods have. Now if you personally have faith and believe in this, that's fine. But its faith, and not sound philosophy. — Philosophim
In case of humans, being forced to exist doesn't imply being made to act like a robot, like all other livings things do.
But, a person is also free to see himself a very intelligent robot or... — KerimF
If these thoughts give you comfort and help you live your life better, more power to you. — Philosophim
But if you're interested in having a philosophical discussion about such things, it will be examined for its logic. — Philosophim
If its an emotional or artistic presentation of personal experience and opinion, these things are more theological than philosophical. — Philosophim
Thinking is something we do (well or poorly) as well as dreaming, breathing and pissing. We do those things because we're creatures which evolved in a particular have certain biological and neurological characteristics. I think you're defining "forced"--which means coerced or compelled by someone or something--in a very odd way. — Ciceronianus the White
My intention was just to emphasise that my existence, in the least, wasn't the fruit of certain randomness, hence for no end purpose other than I try my best to stay alive in this world as long as possible. Indeed, I noticed, year after year, that almost all humans I met or knew (theists or atheists) are very satisfied just for knowing how to survive while pleasing their bodies once a while. — KerimF
Which thoughts? — KerimF
Its logic (The Logic)?! This reminds me when a theist talks about the absolute truth or truths.
I mean an idea has to be examined by a person.
And a serious person examines it based on 'his' logic, not of anyone else (like saying this idea is true because it was approved by... ).
But I am also aware of the fact that a typical person likely sees in his logic, the absolute one that all others have to follow (much like how a theist sees his Truth). — KerimF
You remind me when I talk in a forum of theology about what I discovered concerning my being and the real world, many try to tell me that I am talking philosophy — KerimF
The thoughts that you linked me. — Philosophim
No, it is not my logic, but logic. For example, the law of non-contradiction. Deduction where the conclusion necessarily follows from the premises. Because philosophy is exploring new venues that have not been determined yet, this is our true tool in deciding whether our exploration is worthwhile versus merely our opinion. — Philosophim
One way I like to describe it is thus: Science likes to test hypotheses, philosophy comes up with reasonable hypotheses to test. — Philosophim
For example, if someone could philosophically prove that a God must exist, this would open up a new branch of study — Philosophim
Again, do not take it as a criticism against your own ideas of faith and the afterlife. If they serve you in being a better person in life, who is anyone to take that away from you? But if it is to be examined philosophically, it must rise to a higher standard. — Philosophim
I wonder now, to how far I am disturbing, without my knowledge, the studies discussed by the philosophers around here and their students.
Don't you think, after you know me, that it is better for the forum not to have someone like me in it? I don't like be an intruder in any way. — KerimF
Mmmmmmm..................you expect free will before you exist? That's a first or is that a result of the choice consumerism that you have been a victim of? — david plumb
I think a person like yourself who is polite, listens, and wants to ask questions is always welcome! You have caused no harm, and it has been nice chatting with you. — Philosophim
By the way, I wonder if the following question is philosophical:
What could be the meaning of life on earth if the human race is removed completely? — KerimF
Truth be said, and you are free to call me whatever you like :), I see exactly the inverse. — KerimF
It is me who perceive 'The Existence'. And without this perception I would be just an inert piece of matter — KerimF
As such, we can shape it into something with foresight and thought, instead of the blunt result of chemical forces. — Philosophim
With intelligence, we can create more "existence" then what is merely here. — Philosophim
We just must not forget that we are a part of this universe, and respect the rest of existence around us as well. — Philosophim
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