We all care what we can get in return. There is no such thing as unconditional love. It does not exist. For any love to last, the two partners should be of substance.

Even the perfect love of our Heavenly creator (if you're a theist) has its terms –commandments –or else you're thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone.

We only day dream and chase unconditional love, it is a fantasy because it does not exist. No matter how hard we chase after it. — Konkai

Love is an egoistic concept, where you make your partner property and let yourself be the partner's property. Love is nothing more than an established "Egoistic Union". As long as they are both getting what they want, the relationship will continue to exist. If only one of the partners is being fullfiled, something went wrong and it's no longer a egoistic union.

There is no such thing as unconditional love. It does not exist — Konkai

It's interesting that you've met every person in the world and documented all of their experiences. That must have been quite time consuming!

I have loved, greatly so, many things.
from the ocean's fins to the sky's wings.
In passion I desired deep
my love, to in a cage keep
what else in cages sleep?
slaves, bonded, in them weep.
To love and bind as slaves
is to bury the living in graves
Fins, wings, all things between
Freedom is where love's been

:chin:

Have you ever considered that you've never experienced love?

As for "unconditional", if you're getting technical, there is the condition that you be what you are, if what you are is loved. So technically, there is no unconditional love.

When people say, "Unconditional love", they mean, "There is nothing another can do that is natural to their person that will stop me from loving them". So for example, if a person gets laid off, which is something outside of their control, you don't stop loving them.

Love, not romantic love btw, is the understanding of a person's good, a person's bad, and still accepting them and wanting them to be their best regardless. So yeah, when you love a person with a bad temper, and they lose it that day, you still love them. You of course want them to get better, but you'll love them even if they don't.

Romantic love involves attraction and friendship, which complicates the issue. Attraction and friendship often have certain expectations. But love, which you can have for anyone, does not require such things.

We all care what we can get in return. There is no such thing as unconditional love. It does not exist. For any love to last, the two partners should be of substance. — Konkai

You are totally right. In fact, the unconditional love doesn't exist, for sure, to someone who perceives a human living flesh only to take care of. But his existence is also very important. The world needs all sorts of living things to serve it, in one way or another... by building it (in peace time) and destroying it as well (in war time).

Even the perfect love of our Heavenly creator (if you're a theist) has its terms –commandments –or else you're thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. — Konkai

Again, you are totally right if we consider how Jews, formal Christians, Muslims and Pagans are supposed to believe.
By the way, Jesus only brought knowledge not law.
His sayings/teachings are addressed to humans, as individuals and not as groups of people. As you know, in case of a formal group, people have no choice but being gathered under a certain law, said of God or else... not love :)

We only day dream and chase unconditional love, it is a fantasy because it does not exist. No matter how hard we chase after it. — Konkai

You are right. Unconditional Love and unlimited trust have to be fantasies. Almost all humans on earth are created to just serve the world while being selfish; that is in exchange for living the pre-programmed pleasures embedded in their bodies once a while.

There is no such thing as unconditional love. It does not exist — Konkai

There are different sorts of love, some openly conditional, like that between spouses where there are certain explicit boundaries (e.g. forsaking all others), and some far less conditional, like a parent to a child. My love for my children is not predicated upon their doing anything, and it's hard to imagine there is something that they could do to totally eliminate it.

My love for my children is not predicated upon their doing anything, and it's hard to imagine there is something that they could do to totally eliminate it. — Hanover

Isn't it a pre-programmed natural love?
Yes, I also knew fathers and mothers who didn't or couldn't love their children as you do.

Isn't it a pre-programmed natural love?
Yes, I also knew fathers and mothers who didn't or couldn't love their children as you do. — KerimF

Whether it's pre-programmed or natural love seems irrelevant to the question of whether it exists.

There is no such thing as unconditional love. — Konkai

:chin:

"There is no lonelier man in death, except the suicide, than that man who has lived many years with a good wife and then outlived her. If two people love each other there can be no happy end to it." ~Ernest Hemingway, Death in the Afternoon, 1932

Whether it's pre-programmed or natural love seems irrelevant to the question of whether it exists. — Hanover

I am afraid it is relevant but I have no intension to undermine at all the way you love your children.

There is no such thing as unconditional love. — Konkai

Many decades ago, a friend of mine was missed (we learnt later that he died) leaving behind two little boys (30 months and 18 months). His family was Muslim (I am not). He, not highly educated, hoped that I can teach his boys (besides their teachers at school) when they will grow up. So, during daylight, I took care of the elder first, by teaching him how to read and write even in his early years. A few years later, I sent him also to school with his brother (Now, they are in their 40's, married and have children while living each in another country). I am telling this story to add that all mothers (mainly the Christian ones), I knew while I was taking care of the two kids, were very disappointed for not being married though ready to take care (even financially), as a good loving father does, of two kids who are not of my blood and their family is somehow stranger to me. But these same mothers were also loving mothers and ready to defend their children (always and at any cost) no matter what they do.

I am talking about reality, not to judge anyone's love. I apologize in advance for any inconvenience.

It can be hard to imagine things that exist and things that don't exist.

:heart: :broken:

I wish I could be able to do that.

Have you ever considered that you've never experienced love?

Hi Philosophim, I've experienced love, healthy conditional love; in which I get my needs met.

There are different sorts of love, some openly conditional, like that between spouses where there are certain explicit boundaries (e.g. forsaking all others), and some far less conditional, like a parent to a child. My love for my children is not predicated upon their doing anything, and it's hard to imagine there is something that they could do to totally eliminate it. — Hanover

I don't have any children, but I think you're finding it hard to influence your children. No matter what unacceptable thing they do you'll always love them. But conditional love can foster the notion that what you do has consequences early on in a child, if they do something you'd consider unacceptable you withdraw your love from them. It is a subtle way of raising better human beings.

Rather, than them always experincing boundless love.

Let's say, they are dishonest, you realize that, "then act aloof towards them." The child will feel the lost love from dad or mum. And would course correct.

These are the conditions of love, they make it perfect when experienced.

I guess what I'm saying is that conditional love is more of a tactic in this situation. To instill qualities like discipline, patience, responsibility, honesty, respect etc.

With time, children start to internalize healthy conditional love that guides them to act in ethical ways.

Let's say, you show unconditional love to your children, forever. Now they are adults, you and me know that romantic love has conditions (it is more of work, than something that just happens) what do you think these adults will be after –"unconditional love."

Which is unrealistic, they can be dragged through mud by someone who does not love them as much, but in their heads, they are thinking "I love you for who you are and nothing is going to change that. "


...

...
But if they are aware that love can be withdrawn, then we have healthier relationships were love is reciprocated, and not one sided...



I'm 19, life has proven to me that most things have strings attached and love is not an exception.

I'll love my girlfriend as long as she meets certain criteria, which I'll not explicitly tell her. But at the back of my mind I know what the criteria are.


Now you can't tell anyone overtly that you love them because... ;It won't be sincere, and its not the ideal that society wants us to live upto.

If we were more realistic, we could be telling our loved ones that I love you because... You're intelligent, you're a great cook or you're fashionable. But saying that won't be sincere, it would feel like a transaction. So we opt for the one with less effect.... "I love you. " and we leave it at that.

Until something happens that turns the tables.

If you think, your children love you the same way you love them unconditionally, ask the old folks in retirement homes whose children don't even visit.

don't have any children, but I think you're finding it hard to influence your children. No matter what unacceptable thing they do you'll always love them. But conditional love can foster the notion that what you do has consequences early on in a child, if they do something you'd consider unacceptable you withdraw your love from them. It is a subtle way of raising better human beings. — Konkai

This is either trolling or the worst parenting advice ever.

If what you feel for your kids is something that can immediately and voluntarily be withdrawn as a punishment, it ain't love of any sort. Or what @Hanover said.

Hi Baden, I guess I don't rhyme well with people in here, with my unorthodox thoughts.

I wouldn't want to leave, but let me. I won't do any good in this forum. –Delete my acccount and discussions.

Thanks.

OK, if you still feel that way after a day I will (your account at least), athough I wouldn't take the criticism here too personally. Good intentions may be misread or misunderstood. That's nothing out of the ordinary.

Hi Baden, I guess I don't rhyme well with people in here, with my unorthodox thoughts. — Konkai

Konkai, I don't believe you have offended anyone. When you come to a philosophy forum, expect to have your ideas and beliefs challenged. We come to challenge, and be challenged by others. It can be painful to learn that our ideas are not widely accepted by others, and also painful to realize that others may be right.

But if you want to be a successful, intelligent, and rational person, such experiences are necessary for growth. You're young, and your feelings are completely understandable. Take it from us old timers who have been exactly where you are right now. You are not being judged or hated. You are being challenged so you will think about your beliefs in a more fully examined way.

But you are not a troll, your words are not worthless, and you are perfectly welcome and encouraged to stay.

Hi Baden, with all due respect you gave me one day, I haven't changed my mind. Do me the honors.

Thank you.

I'm 19, life has proven to me.... — Konkai

When I Was One-and-Twenty

When I was one-and-twenty
I heard a wise man say,
“Give crowns and pounds and guineas
But not your heart away;
Give pearls away and rubies
But keep your fancy free.”
But I was one-and-twenty,
No use to talk to me.

When I was one-and-twenty
I heard him say again,
“The heart out of the bosom
Was never given in vain;
’Tis paid with sighs a plenty
And sold for endless rue.”
And I am two-and-twenty,
And oh, ’tis true, ’tis true.

-A. E. Housman

OK, I've deleted your email, changed your username, and removed membership.

I can't say I agree with it being egoistic, or that there is no unconditional love. I have unconditional love for my dogs, and I have the property damage to prove it. Nothing they do can make me stop loving them.

Also I think a few Buddhist monks might say otherwise.

I can't say I agree with it being egoistic — Darkneos

How can it not be an act of egoism, since you acquire the love of someone as you sell your love to another person. It is an exchange of good-feelingness. If love were not something that brought realization to your individual, you probably wouldn't want to experience it.

or that there is no unconditional love. I have unconditional love for my dogs — Darkneos

There is not.

I doubt that you would sacrifice yourself to save the life of one of your dogs, and why? Because your individual is worth much more - to you - than an irrational animal. The fact that you'll deny my point above simply shows that the act of saying "I have unconditional love for my animals or" I believe that unconditional love exists "makes you feel good about yourself and be well regarded by yourself; as a virtuous person, someone worthy of the egoism of others...

Love is a scam, and you're gonna get burned sooner or later, and you'll be more bitter than happy about what transpired between y'all after the whole charade ends.

You underestimate me then. I would not hesitate to die for them if I knew if would save them. I don't say I have unconditional love to feel better about myself or label myself as noble, most people don't even know that and I don't tell them. It's just how I would qualify how I feel about them. I wondered if such a love existed and I did doubt it, until I found myself feeling it for my dogs. It's definitely egoistic.

And like I said there are plenty of Buddhist monks and some "enlightened" folks who would beg to disagree with your claim.

I would argue that your denial of it's existence makes you sound jaded or edgy rather than say anything about the love itself.

Having loved and lost many times I can honestly say this is not true.

What would you say then?

You underestimate me then. I would not hesitate to die for them if I knew if would save them. — Darkneos

I very much doubt that this is true. You can say that because - here I am based on speculation - you are probably not in a situation where this choice must be made - between you and your animals -. I am not saying it is wrong, I'm just saying that this love is not as deep as you think it is.

I don't say I have unconditional love to feel better about myself or label myself as noble, most people don't even know that and I don't tell them. — Darkneos

You just stated my point that you say this to be accepted by yourself the moment you answered me with:

"most people don't even know that and I don't tell them"

If that was true, you wouldn't need to defend yourself as much as you did.

It's definitely egoistic. — Darkneos

In this we agree.

I would argue that your denial of it's existence makes you sound jaded or edgy rather than say anything about the love itself. — Darkneos

Here you simply found it necessary to use Ad Hominem because you disagree with my opinion.