Statement E = There are no absolute eternal facts
E is either true or false — TheMadFool
You've begged the question. It being the case that E is either true or false assumes that there are absolute eternal facts (ie E must be either true or false). Without that assumption you cannot have the premise that E must be either true or false, E might be true sometimes but false others. — Isaac
And in the eternal scheme of life these fictive aspects may be just as important as any real objective facts — Jack Cummins
In brief, how an absolute fact is seen is always relative to the observer.
This leads us having the same fact being seen differently by different observers. — KerimF
What that led me to conclude was that there certain facts which are consensus, including ones including personal ones like, date of birth, country and some of the structures of one's life. Also, mathematics and basic aspects of geography etc. I think except in rare circumstances it would be pointless to argue against these. — Jack Cummins
You've begged the question. It being the case that E is either true or false assumes that there are absolute eternal facts (ie E must be either true or false). Without that assumption you cannot have the premise that E must be either true or false, E might be true sometimes but false others. — Isaac
All I can say in response is the finite can't grasp the infinite. — TheMadFool
What that led me to conclude was that there certain facts which are consensus, including ones including personal ones like, date of birth, country and some of the structures of one's life. — Jack Cummins
In perspective geometry, the infinite is brought to a finite piece of paper when two parallel straights are drawn for example :) — KerimF
An “absolute fact” as I would best define it is a fact that can be regarded/ verified as true independently of or consistently through time. — Benj96
So can there be an absolute eternal fact? — Benj96
Statement E = There are no absolute eternal facts
E is either true or false
If E is false then there are absolute eternal facts
If E is true then it is the absolute eternal fact
Either way, there are absolute eternal facts — TheMadFool
You've begged the question. It being the case that E is either true or false assumes that there are absolute eternal facts (ie E must be either true or false). Without that assumption you cannot have the premise that E must be either true or false, E might be true sometimes but false others. — Isaac
If it is sometimes absolute but not always, it is not eternally absolutely. If it is in some cases eternal, in others not, it is not absolutely eternal. — Kenosha Kid
Are those two facts absolute and eternal? — Isaac
Yes, reductio ad absurdum. — Kenosha Kid
You performed the reductio on the conclusion, not the premises. Your premises are definitions which, by experience are neither absolute nor eternal. — Isaac
The two facts in question are not premises or definitions. — Kenosha Kid
If it is sometimes absolute but not always, it is not eternally absolute — Kenosha Kid
So we end up saying that there must be eternal absolute facts because we have the words 'eternal', 'absolute' and 'fact', and this is just what they mean. I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with that, by the way, just that it's question begging. We cannot state it without already assuming it in the language we use to state it, we haven't discovered anything new, just the assumptions we work with. — Isaac
An eternal fact is not defined as "a statement that is true irrespective of when it is evaluated of which there must be at least one" — Kenosha Kid
Did you not just demonstrate that there are absolute eternal facts - that E being true or false is dependent upon the assumption that there are eternal facts. Can E ever be true or false without having assumed that there are eternal facts?Statement E = There are no absolute eternal facts
E is either true or false
— TheMadFool
You've begged the question. It being the case that E is either true or false assumes that there are absolute eternal facts (ie E must be either true or false). Without that assumption you cannot have the premise that E must be either true or false, E might be true sometimes but false others. — Isaac
The begging of the question is not that the definition contains the assumption that there must be at least one such, it is in the assumption that it the properties of the mutually exclusive and exhaustive set thus presented is an 'eternal fact'. — Isaac
Then it is an eternal, absolute fact that at one moment in the universe's history this was the case.In order to demonstrate that a position is begging the question it only need appear to be the case here and now and the position holds. It doesn't require that my conclusion is an eternal and absolute fact, it might turn out not to be the case tomorrow, that wouldn't make any difference to the refutation today. — Isaac
Define "absolute".[C]an there be an absolute eternal fact? Or can there only be an absolute instantaneous fact that will be true for that point in time for all eternity - the present moment? — Benj96
I've never heard of this as begging the question. Pretty much every theorem ever proven would be an example, since the definitions of all terms must be such that they yield the conclusion of the theorem exactly. — Kenosha Kid
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