Price tag can be very high. But your choice of course. — Hippyhead

Yes, my grandfather had Parkinson's and increasingly severe dementia over a period of 15 years. In those circumstances, I would think fighting to the bitter end would lose any meaning.

Honestly, what scares me is that I try to time my departure too closely, and blow it. And then spend the next 12 years staring at the ceiling unable to move. 12 years that will feel like 2,000. My sister doing this right now. No end in sight. Could be 20 more years to come before it's over. Can you tell I'm terrified? — Hippyhead

I hope you find a way to deal with it, even if it involves defining waves out of existence.

I had an uncle who was mowing the grass on a hot 4th of July and had a heart attack. They said he was dead before he hit the ground. Now that's the way to go about things. — Hippyhead

I'd want at least a second or two to think, "ha, this isn't such a bad way to go". Or, "It's July 4th, why didn't I just relax by the pool?" (I'm not American but my birthday is July 4th, so it all checks out :cool:)

Yes, my grandfather had Parkinson's and increasingly severe dementia over a period of 15 years — jamalrob

Ah, sorry, so you know of what I speak.

I hope you find a way to deal with it, even if it involves defining waves out of existence. — jamalrob

Thank you, same to ya! We shall see.

Ha, I nailed your birthday. We great imaginary sages have a knack for such stunts. :-)

I hope you find a way to deal with it, even if it involves defining waves out of existence.
— jamalrob

Thank you, same to ya! We shall see. — Hippyhead

Yeah, that doesn't work. Try LSD for end-of-life anxiety.

In 2008, we co-sponsored a MAPS-led trial, conducted by Dr Peter Gasser, which was the first study to use LSD in patients since prohibition. As the first LSD study approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 40 years, it put the drug’s medical potential back in the spotlight. The study demonstrated that LSD paired with psychotherapy alleviated end-of-life anxiety in patients suffering from terminal illnesses. In each study session, patients were assisted by therapists, who walked them through their psychedelic experience. Patients reported no prolonged negative effects of the drug, and the 200 ug dose was associated with profound positive effects in alleviating anxiety. At 1-year follow-up, patients reported that their reduced anxiety levels were maintained, and identified no harmful side-effects. — Beckley Foundation

It is the universal cause of existence while itself existing not, for it is beyond all being’ (from his book On the Divine Names). This might seem like nonsense — FrancisRay


It sounds like space to me.

This is because you are caught up in naive realism. You assume spatial extension is fundamental. This idea does not withstand analysis. .

It also sound like 'Emptiness', 'Unity', Unicity', Brahman' and 'Tao'. These are extended only in appearance.
. . .

Patterns are real, but they don't meet our definition of existence. Thus, they can't really die, because they never actually existed in the first place. — Hippyhead

Describe the life history of a pattern. Imagine I drop a pebble into a calm pond. Describe the wave pattern.

This is because you are caught up in naive realism — FrancisRay

Could be. I think I might be caught up in my Catholic upbringing that stated God is ever present everywhere at all times. I'm not stuck on the Catholic God, never was really, but it appears I am stuck on the notion of WHATEVER IT IS being embedded in material reality. Not limited to necessarily, don't know about that.

Could be. I think I might be caught up in my Catholic upbringing that stated God is ever present everywhere at all times.

But this is fine. It implies that extension is not real. How could God be everywhere unless He is nowhere? It is precisely the unreality of extension that allows us to makes sense of omnipresence. .

It implies that extension is not real — FrancisRay

What is extension?

What is extension?

Space and time appear to be extended phenomena. 'Extension' just means they are spread out in space and time, as modeled by the number line.

To believe spatial or temporal extension is fundamental is realism. This is denied by non-dualism and Middle Way Buddhism. The Perennial philosophy endorses a neutral philosophical theory for which space and time are reducible for a fundamental theory. . . . .

We do not experience extension. We are always here and now. This is well discussed by the physicist and mathematician Hermann Weyl in his writings on the continuum. Extension is a theory, not an experience.

Thus God is always here and now, watching every sparrow. He cannot be elsewhere because there is no 'elsewhere'.

This allows us to avoid the endless paradoxes that arise for the idea that space-time is more than an idea. . .

. . .
. . . ,.

We do not experience extension. We are always here and now — FrancisRay

This part I get. The rest, kinda beyond the reach of armadillos. :-)

Ha. It's not a difficult ideas intellectually, but conceptually challenging in the extreme.

It's not a difficult ideas intellectually, but conceptually challenging in the extreme. — FrancisRay

Say more if it interests you to do so, interested here, but this particular reader may require more dumped dumbed down translation in to armadilloese.



PS: It appears armadillos don't excel at spelling either.

We do not experience extension. We are always here and now. This is well discussed by the physicist and mathematician Hermann Weyl in his writings on the continuum. Extension is a theory, not an experience.

Agreed. In our world extension is the flip side of experience (this does not mean it is in any way fundamental).

According to the theory, you can not be destroyed because, as a pattern, you don't exist.

I can buy that, but my explanation is probably quite different to yours.

Agreed. In our world extension is the flip side of experience (this does not mean it is in any way fundamental).

Good to meet another timeless being!

but this particular reader may require more dumbed down translation in to armadilloese.

It is my mission to explain how profoundly simple metaphysics is and debunk the academic discipline, , but it ain't easy.

It is my mission to explain how profoundly simple metaphysics is — FrancisRay

In theory at least, profoundly simple things might be best explained in profoundly simple language.

In theory at least, profoundly simple things might be best explained in profoundly simple language.

Quite so. But then there are questions and objections and the complications multiply.

,,

the ocean is where I come from — Hippyhead

You can't know that. Maybe you come from a very different place and upon death will return there, wherever that is. The ocean is far too big for you to even begin to imagine, in other words. Scary thought?

Sorry to butt in but this is an interesting point. Yes, the ocean cannot be imagined, But it can be known and inhabited. The analogy of an ocean is used to describe a realisation. So Hippyhead can know this. Whether he does is another matter. . . ,. .

Both matter and energy exist and can be transformed into one another.

It remains an open question as to whether, or not, matter and energy are ultimate forms of being, or are simply forms of something yet more basic.

If matter and energy are not ultimate forms of being and can be destroyed, then would the purported "something yet more basic" continue to exist?

Is this another, more parsimonious, way to state Hippyhead's original thesis?

think we can interpret this as saying that it's precisely the patterns that can be said to significantly exist, rather than matter without form. — jamalrob

For living creatures the pattern that persists would be RNA and DNA - expressing their patterns in a myriad of different ways. I'm not suggesting that they are a constant, just a good illustration of the pattern.

According to the theory, you can not be destroyed because, as a pattern, you don't exist.
I can buy that, but my explanation is probably quite different to yours. — Punshhh

I would be interested in your explanation?

I would be interested in your explanation?

That the material we find ourselves in is a construct, an artificial substrate, or vehicle enabling the appearance/experience of a being/s. Being artificial, their existence is artificial and when they cease to be, what ceases to be was not real, but a construct.
Likewise this is also the case for the soul (for want of a better word), but in a more subtle way. This is a simplified version of the idea.

YOU CAN'T DIE BECAUSE YOU DON'T EXIST

should be

I CAN'T DIE BECAUSE I DON'T EXIST


First of all, I do exist!

As Descartes showed: Ego Cogito, Ego Sum. In other words, when and while I am thinking in the first person present tense mode, I must necessarily exist, and this fact is always intuited as being indubitably certain!!!

However, my indubitably certain existence is not a NECESSARY existence because the Cogito (my thinking activity) upon which my indubitably certain existence depends is a CONTINGENT activity; i.e., nothing precludes my thinking activity from ceasing to occur.

I can die because I cannot have an indubitably certain intuition that my thinking is a NECESSARY activity.

In other words, I do exist, and I can die!!!!!!!!

That the material we find ourselves in is a construct, an artificial substrate, or vehicle enabling the appearance/experience of a being/s. Being artificial, their existence is artificial and when they cease to be, what ceases to be was not real, but a construct.
Likewise this is also the case for the soul (for want of a better word), but in a more subtle way. This is a simplified version of the idea. — Punshhh

Enabling experience being the central point?

I would agree with this. The words that I would use is that our mentality is constructed entirely from the integration of information surrounding us and the data inherited via DNA, and our physicality entirely from DNA information entangling energy and matter. The physicality enabling the mentality. So that we have a self at all is doubtful, since all that we are is composed of elements outside of ourselves - hereditary data, energy, materials, and information. The largely, though not completely, constant but perhaps immortal element is DNA information, this varies among species, and has a myriad of expressions.
However, there is a basic strip of DNA data shared by all of life, and I've come to believe it contains the bias to be. What I can not get over is that a bias is emotional information, and it is emotional information that creates consciousness. So in the end, it seems, that consciousness just wants to experience. It seems not fussed about what it experiences. The experience of an amoeba is as good as that of a human being. It seems to want to be in superposition of experience perhaps, or something like that.

Erwin Schrödinger : “There is obviously only one alternative, namely the unification of minds or consciousnesses. Their multiplicity is only apparent, in truth there is only one mind. This is the doctrine of the Upanishads.”

Erwin Schrödinger : “There is obviously only one alternative, namely the unification of minds or consciousnesses. Their multiplicity is only apparent, in truth there is only one mind. This is the doctrine of the Upanishads.”

The great physicist was always on the ball. Thus Hippyhead's patterns do not really exist. Consciousness is Reality and all the rest is smoke and mirrors.

After all, to suppose otherwise it to suppose space-time is fundamental. . . . .

You can never die. Because you never existed in the first place. — Hippyhead

So I can't die, nor do I live. It seems unsatisfactory, somehow.

Thus Hippyhead's patterns do not really exist. — FrancisRay

I don't think Hippyhead's patterns are in conflict with what Schrödinger said. They are a different dimension, I believe. Hippyhead is describing the physicality, but there is also an element of mentality to it, as panpsychism would suggest. In monism the mental and physical are inseparable.

Thus Hippyhead's patterns do not really exist — FrancisRay

Yes, real, but non existent (no mass or weight etc).

Yes, I agree that it's about providing the circumstances for experience. Although I wouldn't say it's consciousness which is having the experience, specifically. Rather consciousness is also a vehicle for experience, likewise the soul. Leaving spirit as what is enjoying the experience. I think it is best to leave spirit undefined, other than its being something we know because we are alive and have being. This fits the reference to the Upanishads you mentioned.

I don't personally look to deeply into the roles played by DNA, because the workings are not important and that the reality of the manifestation is probably more complex than we know, or we are in the dark to the reality.

So I can't die, nor do I live. It seems unsatisfactory, somehow.

You have to assume there is a third state, and this would be immortality. With practice one can discover this state. Then one knows one is not subject to life and death. This is the basic message. .. .