Nonetheless, there's an attempt to reason, no matter how contrived or affected, even in rationalization, right? Commendable in spirit then, if not in letter. — TheMadFool
But I do believe that if you can rationalize, you have the potential to be rational. — Philosophim
They may talk a good game, or create a system that fits within narrow confines, but in the end is not really rational. — Philosophim
Being rational requires a self-awareness of your emotional bias and desires. — Philosophim
Anyone can come up with reasons that confirm what they desire to be — Philosophim
No one, including philosophers and other breeds of thinkers from the world of science and other fields, will ever undertake anything worthwhile if fae doesn't have a stake in it whatever that may be. It would be superfluous to mention the man on the Clapham omnibus at this point. Given this is so, rationalization seems inevitable and is likely to be universal - happening everywhere, anywhere, to anybody. — TheMadFool
What does "fae" mean? Fairy?No one, including philosophers and other breeds of thinkers from the world of science and other fields, will ever undertake anything worthwhile if fae doesn't have a stake in it whatever that may be. — TheMadFool
What does "fae" mean? Fairy? — David Mo
men would do nothing - knowledge included - without emotional motivation — David Mo
Faith is a kind of emotional motivation — David Mo
Isn't that a tautology? — TheMadFool
I'm more inclined to think faith is a mode of belief acquisition but it's no secret that it has emotional underpinnings. — TheMadFool
Psychologists also talk about rational or biological motivation. — David Mo
Faith is the motive for believing in a god. They believe that a god exists because of their faith. Since it is not a rational or biological motivation, I believe it is an emotional motivation to believe. — David Mo
Every position, whether it is "religious, political, philosophical" or otherwise, begins and relies on some founding axiom or inherent principle, whether or not one wishes to use the word "faith" or otherwise". — IvoryBlackBishop
Rational: you decide to buy in a shop because it sells the same products at a better price than another.What are these? — TheMadFool
If one belief is more reasonable than another, it ceases to be faith by definition. Faith consists in believing for the sake of it, even in what is absurd, as Paul of Tarsus said --he should know what he was talking about.It might be totally reasonable to assume, on faith, certain truths and, theories — TheMadFool
Rational: you decide to buy in a shop because it sells the same products at a better price than another.
Biological: You drink water because you are thirsty. — David Mo
If one belief is more reasonable than another, it ceases to be faith by definition — David Mo
Why is it "because" in both cases? I — TheMadFool
The word 'reason' means two different things:
a) The cause or motive for something to have happened.
b) The ability to reach valid conclusions according to the facts and logic. — David Mo
That is why I can say without redundancy that the reason for having done something (in the first sense) is reason (in the second sense). — David Mo
It would be clearer if we talk about motives and rational arguments. — David Mo
Faith is a kind of emotional motivation — David Mo
faith isn't all that popular. — TheMadFool
Axioms, by definition, lack reasons for belief. — TheMadFool
Except among Episcopalians, Papists, Muslims, Hindus, Shintoists, animists, Scientologists and a long etcetera that adds up to a few billion human beings. If we add those who have faith in Hitler, Trump, Bolsonaro, Putin and other lesser fools, we are a handful of 'foolish' rationalists (be worth the paradox).
I think that the Age of Enlightenment is still to come... if climate change lets it. Which I doubt, to my regret. — David Mo
That is why axioms are only valid in formal sciences. — David Mo
In our knowledge of facts, scientific or vulgar, rationalism demands us to question our principles. — David Mo
I have no reason to think that, generally speaking, those who believe in a violent or compassionate god have other different reasons than their belief in that god. Another thing is that you think their beliefs are confusing or that they are at odds with the idea of a god that you believe in. But that is another matter. We are now discussing what is the base of those beliefs that you can think are confusing or wrong. Or not.It looks like it's not true that the various categories you mentioned above actually believe in the thing they're supposed to — TheMadFool
What prevents them from spilling over into other domains like life and living it? — TheMadFool
Last I heard there's no end insofar as "to question our principles" is concerned. Munchhausen trilemma? — TheMadFool
I have no reason to think that, generally speaking, those who believe in a violent or compassionate god have other different reasons than their belief in that god. Another thing is that you think their beliefs are confusing or that they are at odds with the idea of a god that you believe in. But that is another matter. We are now discussing what is the base of those beliefs that you can think are confusing or wrong. Or not. — David Mo
I don't know if I understood the question correctly. 'Spill over` puzzles me a little (damn phrasal verbs!). Can you change the verb? Do you mean 'apply to'? My answer follows this idea: — David Mo
The Munchausen trilemma disappears if we stop looking for absolute principles and look for reasonable principles. — David Mo
In your example faith (belief without justification) is caused (motivation) by habit. In this example habit is the cause, faith is the effect.I'm only drawing your attention to the possible fact that what you see as faith-based beliefs may not actually be that - they could simply be habits learned through repetition in — TheMadFool
What prevents you or me or anyone from assuming things, anything at all - propositions, theories, whatnot? — TheMadFool
Does consistency in itself justify, is it a measure of, truth? — TheMadFool
Can I not choose i.e. assume one of them to be true even though I have absolutely no rationale to do so? — TheMadFool
What exactly is your point? — TheMadFool
In your example faith (belief without justification) is caused (motivation) by habit. In this example habit is the cause, faith is the effect. — David Mo
Nothing prevents you from having a hypothesis if you do not take it as a certainty. — David Mo
Only experience can turn a hypothesis into law, an assumption into knowledge. — David Mo
An inconsistent hypothesis is immediately discarded — David Mo
You're proposing a causal link between habit and faith here. How does that work? Do you have a causal argument to support this? — TheMadFool
Knowledge extracted and/or justified from the senses.What do you mean by "experience"? — TheMadFool
In that case you refrain from giving your opinion. Only in very special circumstances do you take an option without any support. But it is very rare to find a circumstance in which there is no slight support for an option. Most often you find some reason to believe in something. It all depends on you being able to find the best one.What then? Am I not free, in the sense there are no justifications to force a choice, to choose any one of these hypotheses? — TheMadFool
You repeat so much the experience of seeing the sun rise every morning that you end up believing that it will always be like that. The believer who repeats a prayer with a lot of force ends up accepting it as an untouchable mantra. This is how superstitions work, as Skynner demonstrated with a dove.
Whether there is freedom or not I don't know. I can give an opinion on this, but I don't know. — David Mo
In that case you refrain from giving your opinion. — David Mo
The belief that the sun will rise tomorrow is based on the belief that the past will repeat itself in the future. This is the basic principle of induction. Obviously induction cannot be justified by induction. Only habit justifies it. It is a natural habit, but a habit.By tue way your sun example is an inductive inference - it has nothing to do with habit. — TheMadFool
Have you considered bigamy?If I have the opportunity of marrying two equally attractive women, your advice is to not marry at all? :chin: — TheMadFool
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