I can't see myself living anywhere else — healing-anger

Ok. Lol. Yet there's no reason you easily couldn't. Eggshells abound apparently. Sounds like a match made in heaven to be honest. I'm sure you'll figure something out.

suffering as part of life — healing-anger

"Suffering as a [contingent] part of life."

What would a Stoic do — healing-anger

A stoic thinks of "suffering as a [necessary] part of life."

Stoics are dead wrong but it's not their fault...I would've come to the exact same conclusion had I been living 2000 years ago - poor sanitation, rampant disease, ineffective medicine, wars, plagues, corruption, and, for people like me, no air conditioning.

A stoic thinks of "suffering as a [necessary] part of life." — TheMadFool

Only a child or fool doesn't.

I would've come to the exact same conclusion had I been living 2000 years ago - poor sanitation, rampant disease, ineffective medicine, wars, plagues, corruption, and, for people like me, no air conditioning. — TheMadFool

Well the good news is 2,000 years later we at least managed air conditioning.

Only a child or fool doesn't. — Outlander

Which one am I? A child or a fool? Or am I both? I'm not kidding. An answer will mean a lot to me.

Well the good news is 2,000 years later we at least managed air conditioning. — Outlander

This contradicts your previous statement.

Which one am I? A child or a fool? Or am I both? I'm not kidding. An answer will mean a lot to me. — TheMadFool

As I've yet to have the pleasure of becoming acquainted with you I would not know. Is your name ironic?

This contradicts your previous statement. — TheMadFool

How is that?

Hello, I am sorry you are going through this situation. I am not a counselor or a therapist, but I can try and help with some philosophy. Suffering is a part of life.

Friedrich Nietzsche once said: "To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." You can either take that belief as well or not. But suffering still exists for every human in some way or another.

I can't see myself living anywhere else, do any of you accept suffering as part of life? — healing-anger

I accept it as a part of life. I do not think it is life in its entirety. Times will sometimes be hard for some. Times will sometimes be easy for some. Times will sometimes be good for some. Times will sometimes be hard for some. It is just a part of it, in my opinion, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. But, I do not believe that this is a negative aspect of life. And if we accept life as so, then it can help prepare one for harder times, and to know that it may get better, it may get worse, or it may remain the same.

How would a person feel if for instance fae was a through and through Islamic fundamentalist, having even participated in some terrorist activities, then reformed after having met the "right people", but still being called a "muslim fanatic"? Change is a universal truth - I see nothing in the suffering-life couple that isn't ever going to change [for the better]. That's all.

fae — TheMadFool

Fae?

having even participated in some terrorist activities — TheMadFool

Uh, I know how the victims of any said incident would feel lol. That's the thing about insults and put-me-downs. They either have a basis in reality, some merit, or remind you of an area in your life/attitude you need work on or they don't.

I agree or at least want to agree that much of the suffering experienced in life is preventable or at least able to mitigated but a life with no suffering, angst, or worry is hardly a life at all. There'd be no passion or excitement. I'm sure you mean more of the former sentence than the idea of there being "none whatsoever" as a possibility.

Uh, I know how the victims of any said incident would feel lol. That's the thing about insults and put-me-downs. They either have a basis in reality, some merit, or remind you of an area in your life/attitude you need work on or they don't — Outlander

:100: :up:

but a life with no suffering, angst, or worry is hardly a life at all. — Outlander

:100:

My take on that is: if you're not in love with someone/something then, your life would be one with "no suffering, angst, or worry" unless you're an incorrigible narcissist in love with yourself but...the catch is...in my humble opinion, all suffering is contingent. It has to be otherwise, if I may be vague but not to the extent that you miss the point, the idea of heaven or, if you're irreligious, utopia, is nonsense.

Why accept suffering where it isn't necessary? Take steps to fix the problem and if the most obvious solutions don't work then attempt to be creative.

Good point. Why accept suffering or deal with it at all? What if you can convince yourself that whatever it is you initially react to as suffering eventually becomes something that doesn't bother you anymore?

DISCLAIMER to healing-anger: I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, or therapist. So, take my response below with a grain of salt. It is just an opinion and what has worked for me in the past. It is also just my views on toxic people in general and if one should let that person take control of their minds and thoughts or not.

The human mind is more powerful than many people assume. It may be hard to reach that point, but it is worth a shot. For instance, if I am living with a toxic person and interacting with this person is like walking on eggshells every time I try to communicate with them, I still have perception and interpretation on my side. Even if this person becomes abusive, don't let them crush your spirit too. Usually, a toxic person wants to make someone else feel bad about their own situations, experiences, and life. But what if you can push back against them from your own perception and interpretation from the events you encounter with them? I can choose to interpret these instances with this person as miserable, falling into a miserable state of mind about that person, thereby leading to the potential of further suffering when I am alone. But what if I assume judgement on this person in my own mind? What if I then interpret these instances as interactions with this person?

Not labeling them, whenever I think about them, as 'good' or 'bad' or 'toxic' or 'healthy' and simply just become indifferent to this person. First of all, in my opinion, attempting to get to this level is the best thing a person can do in this situation IF they cannot move or get away from the person. Reason why? Because it won't let that toxic person win the domain of your mind. It won't let that person have control over your thoughts and bring negativity and suffering onto you. Second, it generally pisses a toxic person off if you are indifferent to them. It is a form of revenge, which is a way to get back and make yourself feel better for some people and some instances. Finally, it allows you to not focus on them as much.

This is just all my 2 cents on the matter. I have used this technique with people many times in my life. I used to live with someone that was not good for me or that person. We had a lot of problems and it was similar to what you are describing, at least the part about walking on eggshells every time you are around them and interact with them. Best thing I did and learned from that experience, indifference to that other person if the toxicity gets too bad. It allowed me to move on and not care about the situation at all anymore. Once we lived in different houses from one another, we talked about everything, became friends once again, and moved on. Sometimes it may work out for the best like so, sometimes it won't.

I agree with your thoughts about how utilising perception and interpretation could be useful in this kind of situation. There is an aggressive approach which is a response with hostility through demeaning characterisations or a reflective approach where OP might investigate what about their roommate's actions trigger these unfortunate feelings and perhaps re-interpret these actions so that OP's reaction to them is less stressful or exhausting.

It can be aggressive or not, yes. But the victim still has to do something. They can contribute to their suffering inside this event or attempt to lessen the suffering. I find perception and interpretation a practical way to do so.

Why try following the stoic way though? Epictetus was a slave, and let's just say it shines through in his philosophy.

If you have no choice, which is the case for some suffering, then sure, try the stoic way. But in this case, you have two people, the behaviour of one of which is treated as an unchangeable law of nature and the other one is expected to adapt to it like water. Does that seem like a fair and balanced relation to you?

If his or her behaviour is out of line, and you suffer from it, call him or her out on it. If he or she doesn't want or can change his or her behaviour, talk to the others and see if you can get him or her out of the house.

Do not just adapt to unreasonable behaviour from others, you're setting a precedent for the rest of your life.

I live with other people, one of them is very difficult to be around with, it's like treading on eggshells. I feel like I'm 'trapped in a box' so to speak and I can't get out. I can't see myself living anywhere else, do any of you accept suffering as part of life? What would a Stoic do?

I am trying to follow the Stoic way, any advice, would be much appreciated :smile: — healing-anger

Marcus Aurelius wrote:

“Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today ungrateful, violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All of the ignorance of real good and ill...I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no man will involve me in wrong, nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him; for we have come into the world to work together...”

The key to stoicism is understanding and awareness. If someone else is making your life difficult, more often than not, it isn’t really about you - it’s about them: they might be trying to avoid suffering by deflecting or projecting it outward. Most suffering comes from ignorance, isolation or exclusion - which means you can alleviate it by increasing awareness, connection and collaboration. But their suffering is not yours to accept, or even to tiptoe around. Try gently reflecting it back to them instead: “I understand that you’re hurting, and I want to help, but I am not your punching bag”.

Suffering is part of life, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work to minimise any particular instance or pattern of suffering we encounter. As the prayer goes, there are things we cannot change, and things we can change, and the trick is to know the difference. You say that you can’t see yourself living anywhere else - this is a choice you make to limit your perspective, and with it your options. The thing is, you COULD see yourself living somewhere else, but you don’t want to or you don’t know how. It’s important that you acknowledge this, even if you do nothing to change it. Understanding that you have other options (even ones you might not like), yet you’re choosing to live there for a reason, is a key awareness, and will help you to find peace.

If we’ve reached a point in our life where we experience no difficulties, challenges or suffering at all, then either we aren’t conscious or we aren’t really living. But in many cases we are choosing to hold onto suffering because we refuse to let go of certain delusions. Whether it’s a relationship that was once mutually engaging, a job that used to be satisfying or a loved one who has passed, change happens, like it or not. It isn’t about getting away from the pain, but working through it to a more accurate interaction with reality, and a clearer view of the options we have.

Stoicism was not about acceptance, but about understanding.

Thank you

Well, a Stoic would tell you to control your emotions, focus on the positive, be rational, change what you can and not torture yourself about what you can't change - like the other person's personality. Perhaps speak calmly to the person about what you would prefer in terms of behavior, try to see if they have a need or request that can be accomodated so they are not so bristly or whatever it is.

But then following the Stoics might lead you to end up cutting yourself off from parts of yourself. You could, when alone, really allow your reactions to this person to express. Let the anger and fear flow. I mean, your name is healing anger and that can be taken two ways. To get rid of it via some 'healing' or to heal via anger (and other emotions). Some things we need not and should not put up with.

:up:

Move.

Consider: you will die where you are, or you will move. Necessarily, those choices being exhaustive of the possibilities. It's a life you're living, no do-overs. If you look at the hand that wields the whip that afflicts you, you will find that it is your own hand. Sometimes there is no best, only better. Go that way. Move. Nor is Stoicism, nor any other ism, an excuse for inaction or inert self-subjugation. You now officially have no excuses.

In order to handle this situation in a Stoic manner, you must first categorize what you can and cannot control. You can control where you live, you can control where you "see" yourself living, and you can control whether or not you confront this disrespectful roommate. You cannot control the behavior of another and you cannot control his/her reaction to being confronted by you. So the decision is yours, to either move out, convince the others you live with to kick him/her out, or confront him/her and hope that he/she understands your concern and tries to change his/her behavior. Decide what's right for you. Would you like to give him/her a chance or just skip all the difficulty and anxiety by moving out and being happy somewhere else with someone else? Just remember that you will sometimes suffer regardless of what choices you make, and the only thing you can do about it is control how you react.

But a Stoic one is not the only solution to this problem. You could also try to empathize with your toxic roommate. Maybe they are going through something truly difficult and have no one to talk to or any constructive ways to cope. You could help them in that situation, and show them that projecting negative emotions towards others will not help relieve any pain you may have. Granted, I don't have a full understanding of your current situation, so don't misinterpret this, but you could try to be a friend to this person, if that's possible.

Thank you everyone! I appreciate your comments.

Also I have to say, Stoicism is keeping me sane, even though I am suffering! :rofl: I choose happiness over sadness.