Well sorry if economics is a bit weird, or if in economics and in economic literature they have been called "speculative bubbles" at least since the 1970's (like here and then later here or here...). Yet this shouldn't be your counterargument to what I'm saying...or the thing we debate about.calling them speculative bubbles becomes a bit weird. — Benkei
What make's it "the last" one? It didn't burst, I think we are living now in that bubble economy still... and the pandemic might be perhaps the final straw that truly will burst it.I think this was true of the last bubble. With wrong incentives and no skin in the game for a lot of people. — Benkei
Or simply let's have that deflation and start of with totally new financial sector.What we need, in my view, is smaller financial institutions that aren't too big to fail and quicker and more robust bankruptcy and resolution mechanism when they do fail. — Benkei
What make's it "the last" one? It didn't burst, I think we are living now in that bubble economy still... and the pandemic might be perhaps the final straw that truly will burst it. — ssu
Or simply let's have that deflation and start of with totally new financial sector. — ssu
This is the way it has gone. Perhaps the only asset class that was let at least partially to come down was indeed the real estate sector, because the millions of homeowners were not simply connected as Wall Street is. Here "socialism for the rich" comes to play. But you are right that now the bubble is nearly in every (if not every) asset class.Of course, they've rebounded since on the "solution" offered by central banks to bail-out the banks that would've otherwise gone bankrupt for fear of an imploding financial sector. This time every asset category is just overvalued; We had negative yield on 30-year bonds for a while because of the flight to safety in NL and DE. Stocks are overvalued and property is through the roof again. — Benkei
On a global level the service sector is such a huge provider of employment that the impact that pandemic has had is quite dramatic to overall aggregate demand. Same thing goes for tourism etc. — ssu
This time every asset category is just overvalued; — Benkei
Done by comparison.I'm having a big problem making sense of all this What is the value standard by which every asset category is measured? — unenlightened
Why do you think an universal basic handout is the obvious solution?I would have thought that a universal basic income was the obvious solution to such a crisis as we face, linked to food and housing costs. — unenlightened
Why do you think an universal basic handout is the obvious solution? — ssu
Of course the idea is that these companies are so awesome that they will grow. It's silly, yes.Would you put your money into something that would take 1,000 years to pay that amount back? Doesn't really seem like a sensible investment to me. — Benkei
Well, if an society can pay to professional athletes, artists and nail salon personnel, that just shows that the society is prosperous. The more poor the society, the more people working in jobs that are basic necessities.Demonstrably, most people don't need to work most of the time, because we can afford to have to pay people for playing football, and painting each other's nails, etc. But they still need to eat. — unenlightened
But coming back to universal handouts: unemployment benefits do that thing too (feed people). Or more generally speaking, a welfare state system does it. Why the necessity to give Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates the handout? — ssu
haven't Americans already been give by Trump this during the pandemic? I — ssu
Is it strange to understand that there is a huge difference of taking care of those necessities or just giving a sum of money to a person and hoping that the person will use it wisely?Bill and Jeff have to eat too. So we give them the necessities as of right, and get them to pay some tax on their "earnings" like the rest of us. Is it a strange notion to you that the government serves everyone? — unenlightened
Tells something that they didn't continue it. So I'm not so sure it's this great solution. — ssu
I'm not so sure about that. If unemployment isn't a great threat, you aren't facing living in the streets, then simply being unemployed is a valid option.If unemployment was no great threat, work conditions would have to be made pleasant and workers treated with respect. — unenlightened
then simply being unemployed is a valid option. — ssu
Norway can easily afford the system, but we cannot. — ssu
Uhhh...you STILL do have all the expenses, don't forget them. All the unemployment benefits, all the bailouts and funding have to be covered. TRILLIONS of dollars pushed just into the US economy after Covid-19 hit. Yes, spending trillions with a t in one year does have an effect.See I don't believe this. Lockdown demonstrates that we can live without most of the services and with 50% unemployment. If we can live without them, we can afford to live without them. — unenlightened
.you STILL do have all the expenses, don't forget them. — ssu
I get your point. But society doesn't work that way, literally. That accounting you talk about is far more important than you think. Work is important for many people. Starting from things like self respect and mental health.People got to eat. Most people these days are totally unproductive. They cut hair and play football. So if all those people stop work, hair gets longer and grass gets longer. And that's it. All the rest is just accounting for the food that they are going to eat in either case; there is no real difference. — unenlightened
And is it wrong to value work. — ssu
I think it's fine to get some of these people to pick vegetables, or work in the care sector for a good wage. But somehow I doubt that they would see it that way. — Punshhh
I don't think so. Besides, getting rid of meaningless work is a totally different question that getting rid of work altogether.The whole thrust of the development of civilisation has been from the beginning to work less. Work has negative value in the economy and always has had because it tends to be tiring, boring and unpleasant if not dangerous. — unenlightened
Meaningful work brings meaning to life. — ssu
Who has talked about full employment or obligatory work?I have to side with unenlightened on this one. I think the goal is full production, not full employment. Meaningful hobbies give meaning to. — Benkei
Who has talked about full employment or obligatory work? — ssu
We do value work, — ssu
And contribution we usually think as work. Rarely we see ourselves contributing if we just get an unemployment check. That sense of contribution is important and that is my point as it seems you haven't understood my point.I respect myself because I contribute to society — unenlightened
You're the one putting words in my mouth. Naturally if someone really doesn't want to work, that is his or her decision. Yet the vast majority would like to work. And it is very important for many for their self respect as it still is a stigma to be unemployed.You yourself talk about obligatory work — unenlightened
And contribution we usually think as work. — ssu
The unfortunate fact is that a society can tolerate high unemployment because of this personal stigma, even if the unemployment is because of an economic depression. There are enough of annoying people that will say "anyone can get a job if they really want to work". Unemployment is seen as a personal failure. If you the welfare state does give protection and you don't find yourself in the street or living in your car as in the US one can find oneself, that doesn't help the motivational side. — ssu
So what is your argument against a basic income? — unenlightened
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