Faith is the belief in the unbelievable and reconciler of contradictions based on the best arguments that can be made to justify it. But ultimately it rests on absurdity as the main doctrine for its existence. The doctrine being that its very lack of logic is precisely that which gives it power. An idea which in a unique kind of way is eminently logical as a methodology of overcoming all objections to that which is inherently nonsensical but not without meaning. — Tliusin
Faith?
I understand (religious) "faith" as follows:
n. A dogma consisting in mysteries, magic or fairytales (i.e. just-so Woo-of-the-Gaps stories) the questioning of which triggers cognitive dissonance & increased anxiety usually in its adherents (i.e. 'true believers').
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v. To trust - hope for - mysteries or magic or fairytales (e.g. exposing conspiracies) in spite of, or without any, doubts, and usually to the degree trusting is (psychologically) easier than distrusting mysteries, etc.
@OP -
"Faith of" suggests having trust like another, or, as in the NT context, 'like Jesus'. "Faith in" denotes trusting some 'entity' itself (e.g. Jesus). Just my two shekels. — 180 Proof
I find it not so hard to understand the difference between in and of. There is the faith OF Christ as possessed and revealed by him culminating in his Resurrection and the faith IN Christ which Paul internalized and carried forth as his mission to proclaim the means by which man is justified compared to the external world of Law devoid of any such justification. Note what it states in your quote...even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ.
Paul couldn't have proceeded without that prior incarnation of faith manifested in Christ.
Since you proclaim it as an essential distinction, you must already have some idea as to what that is and not merely proclaim as some mystery one must ponder. Actually the biblical quote is quite clear in its meaning. If there is a mystery, it is the mystery of faith itself. — Tliusin
faith IN Christ and the faith OF Christ — Nikolas
Our faith in Christ was/is/probably will be based on a certain set of miracles Christ performed — TheMadFool
I agree.I find it not so hard to understand the difference between in and of. There is the faith OF Christ as possessed and revealed by him culminating in his Resurrection and the faith IN Christ which Paul internalized — Tliusin
Succinct. :up:Faith OF Christ: His faith in god
Faith IN Christ: Our faith in Christ — TheMadFool
Like trusting ... obeying ... submitting ...Faith is what one does, not what one thinks. — unenlightened
Like trusting ... obeying ... submitting ... — 180 Proof
↪Nikolas Well, you do read your Bible. But in reading your Bible so closely you collide with the fact that you are not reading the Bible at all. You're reading a translation. And that is the problem.
And If you're going to read the Bible so closely, you shall have to learn to read in Greek. (And that is actually surprisingly doable!) The phrase in Galatians reads, "διὰ πίστεωσ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ" (dia pisteoos Jesus Christ). Literally, then, "through faith Jesus Christ."
The "dia" is a preposition that here means "through." It means through in this instance because of the the genitive endings "ou," and which in English is translated "of." (With different endings it means something else.) In short, then, the Greek does not have your problem; your problem is an artifact of translation into English.
And there are a lot of such problems because the square peg of Greek often does not fit the English round hole. In addition, there are just plain wrong translations, those some of translators/editors apparently feeling the Bible benefits from tweaking here and there.
Two lessons. First, trouble to obtain a good translation. Second, read for sense, letting your own sense absorb the shock and ride over small issues that may likely just be matters of translation. Third, learn Greek, PM me if you want to discuss that more. — tim wood
What does "in" and "by" have to do with anything? These are English words that do not occur in the original. (And in English, obviously, they are not the same.)Do you see IN and BY as the same? — Nikolas
Do you see IN and BY as the same?
— Nikolas
What does "in" and "by" have to do with anything? These are English words that do not occur in the original. (And in English, obviously, they are not the same.)
Here's a pretty good literal translation of Gal. 2:16
Knowing and that not is righteous a man out of working of law if not through belief Jesus Christ, and we into Christ Jesus believed, in order that we be righteous out of belief Christ and not out of working of law, that out of working of law not will be righteous all flesh. — tim wood
I suggest you immediately give up and refrain forever from trying to read Greek meaning from English translation. You will never be correct and you may be very, very wrong. If you wish to understand the Bible, or really any other book, you have to first find out what it says - not as straightforward as it sounds. In translation you can get reasonably close, but not as close as you would like to get. Wasting perspiration on deconstructing English prepositions is a ultimately a foolish game. Certainly the authors/editors weren't planting mysteries there.believes through refers — Nikolas
When read word for word in the OP there really is no IN and OF Christ mentioned. Paul merely juxtaposes justification by faith as opposed to law announcing it a dead end. The irony is that this so-called justification by faith became law later on. Can't quite catch on to what Justification is supposed to mean in either case. What justifies man if not the fact that he's here. What would justify his disappearance if not another act of god or himself being the cause. For anything to be justified requires an overt reason and not just a single word abstraction which denotes nothing but can connote anything. — Tliusin
I suggest you immediately give up and refrain forever from trying to read Greek meaning from English translation. You will never be correct and you may be very, very wrong. If you wish to understand the Bible, or really any other book, you have to first find out what it says - not as straightforward as it sounds. In translation you can get reasonably close, but not as close as you would like to get. Wasting perspiration on deconstructing English prepositions is a ultimately a foolish game. Certainly the authors/editors weren't planting mysteries there. — tim wood
Well, you do read your Bible. But in reading your Bible so closely you collide with the fact that you are not reading the Bible at all. You're reading a translation. And that is the problem. — tim wood
Faith is what one does, not what one thinks. — unenlightened
Casting my vote here. — Hippyhead
Conscious faith is freedom while emotional faith is slavery. — Nikolas
Can you consciously choose slavery? — David Mo
It is usually said that faith is the motive why people believe and do certain things. However, I can't find any way for people to do things if they don't believe something. For example, they go to church on Sundays because they believe that God commands it. You kill infidels because you think God commands it. Etc.Behind acts that are not reflexes there is always a belief. Specially in the field of religion. — David Mo
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