I don't see how you can equate anything Obama believed with Trump's world-view. — Tim3003

He offered something new and, in it's own way, radical.

I think populists don't call for change. Just the reverse. They surf the wave of the conservative's fear of change. Brexit was not a change but a reaction to the changing nature of the EU, a wish to hold on to a notion of Britain from the past, before immigration and those Brussels burocrats started trying to control our green and pleasant land. That's why the retirement age voters went for it and the young did not. — Tim3003

I think you misunderstand how right wing populism works. Yes, it is backwards-looking, but it's not conservative in the usual sense. Right wing populists like Trump, Johnson et al did not promise to keep things stable. They promised a return to the natural state of (national / racial) superiority by smashing the "establishment", which purportedly maintains an artificial, unnatural state. They want change, but change toward some ideal version of the past.

In the same way Trump didn't call for change either, just a reversion to an America-first view that would have been the only show in town a few decades ago. It's the fear of change, and especially that threatened by globalism and climate change, that populists thrive on. Their supporters are usually those with so little imagination they can easily bury their heads in the sand instead of considering the effects of their wall-building. The word 'conservative' isn't used for no reason.. — Tim3003

But Trump's version of America first has no roots in recent history. America has been a global power since world war 2. You'd have to go back to the interwar period to find a similar isolationist tendency.

UKIP support collapsed as soon as Farrage left it, which was well before the Brexit deal was signed. There was however a Brexit supporting govt by then so he thought his fight was won. When Teresa May failed to get her deal through parliament he realised it might not be, so at the election the in-coming Boris was forced to call he formed the Brexit party to keep Boris honest. Voters flocked to Farrage and not to UKIP, which still existed. — Tim3003

And is your position that, has Farrage not returned, there would have been much less support for the Brexit party?

I see this a bit in Fox (though they still provide a platform for the fraud narrative, just hedge their bets both ways).

But Breitbart as of right now has the following front page headlines: — boethius

Yeah they seem to be gearing up now. Perhaps there was some confusion over what their position would be, or perhaps they always planned to rev the machine up slowly so they'd be able to react to events.

I'm seriously questioning whether the current Biden win may in fact not be worse than a Trump victory — StreetlightX

Which of the two do you want in control of America's nuclear weapons? It's amazing to me that all the oh so very clever analysts here and elsewhere can't seem to stay focused on the biggest threat to modern civilization for more than 10 seconds. Biden too, same thing, barely a mention.

Yes, yes, I know, I know, you feel Biden is a baby killing war criminal with blood dripping from his satanic fangs etc etc blah, blah, blah. But he didn't just fire the Sec of Defense for no rational reason at a time of maximum vulnerability. Biden may be highly objectionable to leftie progressives, ok, but no one is questioning Biden's sanity.

Boring Biden is just what the country needs right now, not more hysterical screaming by the extremist "one true way" partisans on all sides.

You are missing out on the best part of life if you think that everything spoken must either be the truth or a lie. You might also be missing out on the worst part of life, as well. Conclusion: your life must be very boring. What if I said to you: "Let's go run away together", how would you class this as truth or falsity? How would you class a question? How would you class rhetoric? How would you class diplomacy? I'm sorry to have to shatter your illusion Harry, but human relationships are not discussed in terms of truth and falsity. — Metaphysician Undercover

We were talking about politicians. They don't ask questions. The reporters do. Politicians make assertions. If you aren't telling the truth or a lie then you aren't saying anything. You're just making noises with your mouth. So it seems to me that believing in the existence of statements that are neither truth or lies would be the boring life.

Asking a question asserts the truth or falsity that you are ignorant of the answer to the question, or else why ask it, unless you are lying about, or feigning your ignorance?

And if politicians aren't telling the truth or a lie and people believe that what they are saying is either or, then the politician is fooling their listeners, which equates to lying.

You're just making noises with your mouth. — Harry Hindu

Now that's a good example of a lie. Or is it the truth?

I think you misunderstand how right wing populism works. Yes, it is backwards-looking, but it's not conservative in the usual sense. Right wing populists like Trump, Johnson et al did not promise to keep things stable. They promised a return to the natural state of (national / racial) superiority by smashing the "establishment", which purportedly maintains an artificial, unnatural state. They want change, but change toward some ideal version of the past. — Echarmion

IOW they’re radical regressives.

Is there a coup d'état going on, or what?


Official who once called Obama a 'terrorist leader' takes over Pentagon policy
The departure of James Anderson, acting undersecretary of defense for policy, potentially paves the way for Anthony Tata to take over the policy shop.

By LARA SELIGMAN and DANIEL LIPPMAN
11/10/2020 10:34 AM EST

Anthony Tata, a retired brigadier general whose nomination for a top Pentagon job collapsed this summer due to Islamophobic tweets and other controversial statements, began overseeing policy for the Defense Department on Tuesday.

The move is part of a high-level civilian leadership shakeup that began on Monday when President Donald Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693

Word on the hill is that the radical leftists almost cost the Dems the election by being too left.

It's definitely not the case that foisting Biden ahead of Bernie as the DNC nominee replaced genuine enthusiasm with status quo fan-fare...

...

Still trying to wrap my head around the logic...

Corporate America sabotages the left for financial gain, nearly costs them the election, and then starts blaming the left... for financial gain...

Yay Schumer! Yay Pelosi!

Hopefully the dems won't get the senate, so that no matter how criminally the radical socialists and their base rant and rave, Biden won't have to do a damn thing!

Corporate America sabotages the left for financial gain, nearly costs them the election, and then starts blaming the left... for financial gain... — VagabondSpectre

Corporate America will just go further off shore than they already are if leftism gains too much. This isnt freaking 1917 where the left has any kind of substantial leverage. You just eat those crumbs and be damn thankful they fell off the table onto the floor where you could get them.

If you think life would be better without them, just move to Canada and learn to hunt moose and such.

Is there a coup d'état going on, or what? — Olivier5

Nope. What is going on is a Trump tantrum. A coup isn't when the executive uses his power to dismiss people that he can dismiss.

Besides, last chances that Trump can fire people!

There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration," said Secretary of State Mike Pompeo after a reporter asked whether the State Department will cooperate with the Biden transition.

Echoing President Donald Trump’s repeated claims that he would be the winner if only “legal votes” were counted, Pompeo said “I’m very confident that we will count, and we must count, every legal vote, we must make sure that any vote that was not lawful ought not be counted, that dilutes your vote if it’s done improperly, gotta get that right. When we get it right, we’ll get it right.”


It looks like those guys are preparing a coup.

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that listening to what the Secretary of State said and listened a bit more further. The reporters question was loaded. If Trump hasn't yet acknowledged the election result, Pompeo surely isn't going to be suckered to make the admittance on behalf of the administration when Trump wants to go through the process. Notice his smile and manner there. And hence Pompeo continued talking about that process now happening and referring to the year 2000 election. This isn't coup talk.



Then when they say that after investigations that there has been widespread fraud etc and they won't admit that Biden vote, only then you are going into the true political crisis/civil war territory. Or when you have two competing administrations in January 20th.

Back to 'normal'.

Fuck Biden.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-time-to-stop-trumps-power-grab-is-right-now

I think you misunderstand how right wing populism works. Yes, it is backwards-looking, but it's not conservative in the usual sense. Right wing populists like Trump, Johnson et al did not promise to keep things stable. They promised a return to the natural state of (national / racial) superiority by smashing the "establishment", which purportedly maintains an artificial, unnatural state. They want change, but change toward some ideal version of the past. — Echarmion

:100: :shade:

Yes, but that provides the excuse to stop the lawlessness with order

Then when they say that after investigations that there has been widespread fraud etc and they won't admit that Biden vote, only then you are going into the true political crisis/civil war territory. Or when you have two competing administrations in January 20th — ssu

In other words, they are preparing a coup...

He's up to something, he's replaced most of the civilian leadership in the pentagon in the last 24 hrs. There are lots of rumours going around, my preference is to trigger emergency powers due to civil disobedience, insurgence, or war. So that he can claim that the transfer of powers is postponed indefinitely.

This isn't over. He is trying to stay in power by any means necessary. First he tried to weaken US Postal, now he is blocking the transition, putting up a legal smokescreen, and preparing for the use of the military to clamp down unrest. I bet he's gonna hit on Tom Wolf next (Pennsylvania Governor).

In other words, they are preparing a coup... — Olivier5

Notice the word when.

Likely what is happening is that the Republicans are dealing with sore loser that may in his tantrum break up the party even worse. First it should be understood that:

1) ALL Trump administration officials will not admit the loss now when that would be to directly challenge their own boss and lead them going the way of Mark Esper and others.

2) Similarly only few Republicans like Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse or Susan Collins , that basically are already against the President, have admitted the obvious that Biden won. Others fear the backlash from Trump and the especially the Trump crowd. Remember still that the elections was a close call, not a humiliating defeat for Trump. And the focus is still on the Senate race.

3) All this leads to a situation where the Republicans appease Trump and put on this show, because just what you say is enough. For example the Barr memo on election fraud is quite lame, as usual.

4) The media will of course make the situation more dramatic.

But let's think of this situation that Trump would be truly thinking staging a coup:

He's up to something, he's replaced most of the civilian leadership in the pentagon in the last 24 hrs. There are lots of rumours going around, my preference is to trigger emergency powers due to civil disobedience, insurgence, or war. So that he can claim that the transfer of powers is postponed indefinitely. — Punshhh

Well, Trump can fire his administration officials as much as he wants, it's a bit different with the actual armed forces. Let's just remember that TRUMP UTTERLY FAILED in using active army units to quell the rioting in the summer. They weren't used. The now fired Mark Esper was against it and especially also the top military leaders were against it. Troops from the 82nd Airborne were withdrawn from the Capital and Trump had to rely on a hodgepodge of various services, including the prison service. And let's remember that then it wouldn't have been so outrageous action as there's many case of actually the US President using active army, starting from Eisenhower. Hence when we already have an example how Trump fails in these issues, it's unrealistic that now as a lame duck Trump would be able to get the military to do something totally unheard of.

Trump is no Putin.

TRUMP UTTERLY FAILED in using active army units to quell the rioting in the summer. They weren't used. The now fired Mark Esper was against it — ssu

And that's why he was fired, to give way to people who will not object.

Trump is no Putin. — ssu

Maybe Putin is doing the thinking...

I think an actual military coup is pretty unlikely. Such an operation would be far too likely to turn off large swathes of the population.

If overt moves are made, it'll be interfering with the electoral college to cause a gridlock on the road to inauguration. Then the Trump administration may try to simply stay in office since no new president was constitutionally elected.

Since there are scenarios where the US Constitution just fails, this might cause enough confusion among the military and police forces to allow Trump to avoid being removed. He can then use the inevitable riots as an excuse to deploy the police and perhaps the military.

That's not necessarily what Trump and / or the GOP want though. This might all just be posturing to keep the "stolen election" alive for the next 4 years, in order to gain another fully GOP controlled Congress & presidency. Then the real power grab might happen.

That's not necessarily what Trump and / or the GOP want though. — Echarmion

Trump wants to stay in power, by whatever means. He is not posturing. He is doing it.

He doesn't stand much of a chance without the support of the GOP establishment. You can't just order a military coup in an established democracy. Without some kind of legitimate claim, such orders would simply be ignored by the rank and file.

He doesn't stand much of a chance without the support of the GOP establishment. — Echarmion

He's got that covered. As soon as they start to see that he could possibly pull it off, dozens of Republicans will flock by his side. Keep in mind that there's much money to be made in selling off a democracy.

You can't just order a military coup in an established democracy. Without some kind of legitimate claim, such orders would simply be ignored by the rank and file. — Echarmion

The way it's done in Africa, all you need is a few battalions backing you up. You don't need the entire army t make a coup.

"Joe Biden, in his acceptance speech, called for unity and healing. He would work “to win the confidence of the whole people”.I just hope he doesn’t mean it. If he does, it means that nothing has been learned since Barack Obama made roughly the same speech in 2008. The United States of America is fundamentally divided. It is divided between exploiter and exploited, oppressor and oppressed. There is no unity to be found with kleptocrats and oligarchs. Any attempt to pretend there is will lead to political failure. It will lead not to healing but to a deflected polarisation. If Americans are not polarised against plutocrats, they will be polarised against each other.

...Obama’s attempt to reconcile irreconcilable forces, to paper over the chasms, arguably gave Donald Trump his opening. Rather than confronting the banks whose reckless greed had caused the financial crisis, he allowed his Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, to “foam the runway” for them by allowing 10 million families to lose their homes. His justice department and the attorney general blocked efforts to pursue apparent wrongdoing by the financiers. He pressed for trade agreements that would erode workers’ rights and environmental standards, and presided over the widening of inequality and the concentration of wealth, casualisation of labour and record mergers and acquisitions. [i.e. Fuck Obama - SX]"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/us-trump-biden-president-elect

King Monbiot.

The way it's done in Africa, all you need is a few battalions backing you up. You don't need the entire army t make a coup. — Olivier5

In many African countries the entire army is a few battalions.

Also what is needed a) poor government, b) lacking and nonexistent institutions, c) a history of military coups and d) active or passive support from at least a portion of the people for a military overthrow.

Besides, the US armed forces don't just slavishly turn up and obey the whims of an erratic President. As I stated earlier, they already turned down Trump's call to put down riots in the summer. That should be a point here to remember. Trump called for the military and the military didn't come. Only the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff walked around the White House. As a military based on a voluntary force, the last thing they want to do is to tarnish their positive reputation with jumping on the runaway Trump trainwreck.

What is likely is just a huge crescendo of utter cacophony and craziness to the Trump administration. Trump won't admit defeat and the outcome is simply that the transition is very clumsy and the US won't focus on World events for a while. That is what is going to happen.

The show will be a spectacle, likely. Before Trump will come up with the idea to run in 2024, he will adamantly refuse the win. Maybe he will put on a shadow government (the REAL administration) at worst. Yet somehow I feel the country won't separate even in that case.

Also what is needed a) poor government, b) lacking and nonexistent institutions, c) a history of military coups and d) active or passive support from at least a portion of the people for a military overthrow. — ssu

You got a) and d). Trump has got more than passive support, he's got 70 million votes and a host of extreme right militia armed to the teeth, and biding for their time. As for b) the US electoral system is very weak and open to abuse; and for c) a history of military coups, there's always a first time.

If Americans are not polarised against plutocrats, they will be polarised against each other. — StreetlightX

And that's what the plutocrats want. Divide et impera.

Trump has got more than passive support, he's got 70 million votes and a host of extreme right militia armed to the teeth, and biding for their time. — Olivier5

Well, just don't confuse those 70 million votes to all being QAnon believers. Or do you think that all Biden voters believe that Trump is the new Hitler?

I still believe that the many Americans believe in their Republic can get over an election. And that's what counts.

Yes I see the points you make, but Olivier5 is right there is a large armed militia "standing by" amongst his base. Also most of those 70 million will go along with it because the've already drunk the coolaid and believe the rhetoric that the Democrats are literally steeling the election from under their noses. All that Trump requires is enough conflict somewhere in order to spin it into a national emergency and exercise emergency powers to postpone the transfer of powers indefinitely. He only needs to do that long enough that the integrity of the genuine election is cast in doubt and he can dismiss it as an aberration. Those 70 million would lap it up.