Valuing your own space, thoughts and inner life can only be a good thing. — Corinne

In a pandemic that's for sure.

There are of course elements of introversion that may hamper a person's progress. Sometimes we can be observers instead of participants in life and Extroverts seem to naturally win... — Corinne

There is an issue here of what do you value. What do you want in your life? What constitutes winning? If what is valued is cooperation and peaceful coexistence, rather than competing for the same goods, then the extroverts who will forever be in competition with other extroverts cannot be said to win. But there is really many more characteristics which need to be factored into the equation.

What can Introverts bring to the party... — Corinne

There is something called privacy, which is for some reason valued quite highly in western societies. Being an introvert would naturally make one value privacy more highly than being an extrovert would. But we would need to question whether privacy ought to be valued. Is this an objective value, or is it just personal preference? What would support the request for privacy as morally justifiable?

Thank you Metaphysical Undercover Privacy should be highly valued - in order to formulate views, ideas and keep that which you cherish most safe - until you choose to reveal it to the wider world.

Not you or I of course, but ...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/communication-success/201601/7-signs-covert-introvert-narcissist

Thank you Uenlightened Had a peek at the Website, very good...

There are of course elements of introversion that may hamper a person's progress. Sometimes we can be observers instead of participants in life and Extroverts seem to naturally win... — Corinne

When we differ so greatly in our personalities, we also differ greatly in our goals and values. For an extreme introvert , just living a peaceful life and not socializing might be his only aim and he may achieve it. All I am saying is that all extroverts or introverts do not have a same goal.

Thank you philosooher004, I appreciate this. Definitely, our goals may be totally different

It is important to accept ourselves as we are

Famous Introverts

A very thoughtful thread, Corinne. As a mathematician I find the quality productive, but in balance with social aspects of the discipline. :cool:

In my view introverts are the emotionally balanced people: those who neither need constant emotional support from others nor need others to vent their emotional overflow onto.

Introverts can still be perfectly sociable, even socially adept, and can even enjoy socializing — I consider myself an introvert, but when I do socialize I get very energized from being the center of attention and life of the party.

But an introvert doesn’t require constant social activity to just feel alright. An introvert is someone who is okay just being by themselves.

(Last year I suffered a year-long existential crisis where being alone with my thoughts was terrifying, and talking with some friends was one of the few things that made me feel temporarily okay. That made me wonder if extroverts, who can’t stand isolation ever, are just chronically going through what to my lifelong introverted eyes looked like an acute crisis).

Thank you jgill

Thank you Pfhorrest very insightful.

Could you all go and talk somewhere else please?

Quite happy being here Daemon, feel free to join in if you wish...

I'll be in my room.

As one points out, it's worth mentioning there's a difference between being an introvert and being anti-social. I'd say, the introvert prefers or rather sees heavy, constant social interaction as just a thing to do every now and then to change things up, not as a necessity. I've read many introverts view heavy, prolonged social interaction as "draining" whereas extroverts need it to feel alive. I've considered myself as an introvert these days yet when I was younger being around folks was my favorite thing. I wonder if it has anything to do with one's upbringing? I was raised for the most part in a single child household, myself obviously being that child. I imagine you tend to become accustomed/accepting/feel "at home" based on your upbringing. They say the first 5 years of life are the most important and ultimately dictate the kind of person you'll be in life.

Thank you Outlander, I agree, there is the distinction between being introverted and anti-social. It is only recently we have discovered the importance of formative years in shaping a child's viewpoint.

It is only recently we have discovered the importance of formative years in shaping a child's viewpoint. — Corinne

Francis Xavier, the founder of the Jesuit order, said "Give me a child until the age of seven and I will give you the man". It became a sort of motto of this organisation. He died in 1552.

Thank you Daemon, he was a visionary right enough.

Hi Folks, enjoy the thread if you wish, if you don't mind I am going to retreat to the safe
cocoon of my own thoughts. I may return...

I fully understand the phenomenon of shyness. It takes you out of the current of life and squeezes you into a dark corner where everything just happens in thought and nothing is accomplished. It crunches opportunities like earthworms that you step on the way. It takes you away from what you want and populates your life with everything you don't want. From shyness to depression and depression to resentment the path is very short. The shy are among the devil's favorite foods. He chews them like gum and throws away the tasteless rubber that remains at the end. If you have the temptation to be shy, drop it immediately. Start doing everything that you fear will cover you with ridicule. It is better to make a fool of yourself than be the fool.

If you have the temptation to be shy, drop it immediately. — Rafaella Leon

Suppose I feel shy. How do you propose that I could drop this feeling?

In order to win sympathy, you need to show interest in people. Only if you are interested in them just to gain sympathy, you are not really interested: your focus is not on them, but on you, it is subjective, then that will fail. So the practice is about teaching yourself to have a genuine interest in people. In other words, you don’t need to think about sympathy. Because? Because it is implied, you will gain sympathy anyway. If you are really interested in listening to the person, he’ll sympathize with you even if you don't thinking about it; so why are you going to try to win sympathy, if sympathy is already built in? So the focus shifts from winning sympathy to genuine interest, and so on many other things. I mean, there will be a change in the axis of conduct, and then you will see that the sympathy you want to get is not worth the effort, because it is very easy. Then you will not arrive with shyness and such because you know that what you are offering is good.

So you leave the subjectivism of youth because you know that you have true love for one person or for several people (not only in the sexual domain, for instance). And notice well: if you have true love and that love is rejected, you don’t feel depressed, you don’t feel diminished, you feel sorry for the person. I mean, as your concern goes up, you lose that fear, that fear of not being accepted, of not being liked. Because being liked is the easiest thing in the world! There is no reason to waste so much time on it. Have a genuine interest, have a true love for people, and they will like you; and if they don’t like it, then you’ll be sure they’re stupid.

In short, you gradually extract yourself from the judgment of others as you gain certainty of your intentions. It is not that you will despise the opinion of others — we should never despise the opinion of others — you simply do not need it because you already know what you are doing. All courses that promise to "overcome" shyness are concentrated and always return to that: love your neighbor. Anyone knows, without having to take a theology or philosophy course, that the Greek word "love" has its variations — eros, philos, and agape — and the word used to say that God is love in 1 John 4:8 is "Agape". Love is sacrifice, objective and disinterested.

In order to win sympathy, you need to show interest in people. Only if you are interested in them just to gain sympathy, you are not really interested: your focus is not on them, but on you, it is subjective, then that will fail. So the practice is about teaching yourself to have a genuine interest in people. In other words, you don’t need to think about sympathy. Because? Because it is implied, you will gain sympathy anyway. If you are really interested in listening to the person, he’ll sympathize with you even if you don't thinking about it; so why are you going to try to win sympathy, if sympathy is already built in? So the focus shifts from winning sympathy to genuine interest, and so on many other things. I mean, there will be a change in the axis of conduct, and then you will see that the sympathy you want to get is not worth the effort, because it is very easy. Then you will not arrive with shyness and such because you know that what you are offering is good. — Rafaella Leon

I don't see the relationship you are trying to draw between shyness and sympathy. Anyway, the issue at question is not a matter of preventing shyness from arriving, it is a matter of getting rid of it once it is here.

So you leave the subjectivism of youth because you know that you have true love for one person or for several people (not only in the sexual domain, for instance). And notice well: if you have true love and that love is rejected, you don’t feel depressed, you don’t feel diminished, you feel sorry for the person. I mean, as your concern goes up, you lose that fear, that fear of not being accepted, of not being liked. Because being liked is the easiest thing in the world! There is no reason to waste so much time on it. Have a genuine interest, have a true love for people, and they will like you; and if they don’t like it, then you’ll be sure they’re stupid. — Rafaella Leon

In other words, if the others don't behave in the way required to make my shyness go a way, it is because they are stupid. "Everybody knows that the world is full of stupid people" - The Refreshments. So just how far down do you want to go?

In short, you gradually extract yourself from the judgment of others as you gain certainty of your intentions. It is not that you will despise the opinion of others — we should never despise the opinion of others — you simply do not need it because you already know what you are doing. All courses that promise to "overcome" shyness are concentrated and always return to that: love your neighbor. Anyone knows, without having to take a theology or philosophy course, that the Greek word "love" has its variations — eros, philos, and agape — and the word used to say that God is love in 1 John 4:8 is "Agape". Love is sacrifice, objective and disinterested. — Rafaella Leon

OK, so let's say that I know what I am doing, and I have confidence, but I'm still shy. What next? Is my confidence fake? How do I get real confidence? And how can I love my neighbours when they're not making my shyness go away, and are therefore stupid?

Have a genuine interest, have a true love for people, and they will like you; and if they don’t like it, then you’ll be sure they’re stupid. — Rafaella Leon

That may be the most amusing thing I have read in a while. Also the most judgmental. Just inspiring.

Shyness is not the same as being an introvert. Shyness is being nervous or timid in other people's company, usually based on a fear of other people's reactions to oneself. Shyness is an extremely expensive character trait and one that most people cannot afford.

Introverts tend to live in their own thoughts and do not require other people around to be comfortable or happy. Hence, less concerned with other people's company. In fact other people are often a distraction to the introvert's thought processes. "We don't talk our stuff out, and your talking is distracting so I will leave now to think."

Extroverts are more vocal, social and seemingly outgoing, requiring the company of others to feel comfortable. "We like to talk it out, explain out thoughts aloud and adjust them as we go".

Antisocial types have no use for your opinion, and while they might have a use for you, you might not like it, and that doesn't bother them either.

I think there is a danger with these kinds of labels -- I think they can be self limiting.
I always thought of myself as an introvert, and I am, but the problem is it became an excuse to dodge socializing, even in situations where it was really in my best interest to try.

And frankly there can be a smugness to the introvert thing, at least in the west. You listen to conversations, and think to yourself you'd have something more profound to say, rather than all that jibber jabber. Damn this shyness! Rather than putting yourself out there.

I always thought of myself as an introvert, and I am, but the problem is it became an excuse to dodge socializing, even in situations where it was really in my best interest to try. — Mijin

How do you know though, that it was really in your best interest to try? If socializing makes you feel uncomfortable, then you'd have to assume something which has a higher priority than your comfort, to make you say that in some situations socializes is in your best interest. Suppose there are some "things" which you can get from socializing. Are those things really more valuable than being happily anti-social?

How do you know though, that it was really in your best interest to try? — Metaphysician Undercover

Because I know since pushing myself more, I get more opportunities in my career, relationships and general interests and hobbies.

My point is that, being introvert can become part of someone's identity, and be self limiting, the same way that, say, "I'm hopeless with computers" can be.

I like where I am in my life now. My personality is introverted and solitary and I'm not going to kid myself about that. But, just like a naturally chatty person might find advantage in being silent now and then, sometimes it's worth my while to play the social role.