Well commentators (and ERG MPs) are forecasting a trade deal in the next week. Time for EU members to ratify the deal is running down fast. Maybe Boris's loss of his US bum-chum has weakened his knees, and fear of Biden's retribution if he reneges on the Brexit deal has weakened his bowels.. As he puts his foot in it in a new way every day (yesterday he called devolution a disaster) he can hardly afford to fail now.

He'll fold like a wet cardboard box.

Implode is more appropriate and the ERG will attack the corpse like rabid dogs. In the meantime, a paper thin deal might, or might not be agreed.

Johnson is between a rock and a hard place. He would like to capitulate and reach a compromise with the EU, but he is hostage to the ERG and the perception that the amount of sovereignty that would need to be given away at the last minute to reach the paper thin deal, is to much to countenance. Better to cut free with a no deal and have pure untarnished sovereignty, no matter what the chaos that will ensue.

While there are a growing number who think that the Brexiters should be given their holy grail (clean break Brexit) and be made to own it. As that is the only way to lance the boil.

While there are a growing number who think that the Brexiters should be given their holy grail (clean break Brexit) and be made to own it. As that is the only way to lance the boil. — Punshhh

Yes, I occasionally veer this way, but obviously I feel bad for those who voted for Remain who are going to feel that pain.

but he is hostage to the ERG and the perception that the amount of sovereignty that would need to be given away at the last minute to reach the paper thin deal, is to much to countenance. Better to cut free with a no deal and have pure untarnished sovereignty, no matter what the chaos that will ensue. — Punshhh

Well I heard Peter Bone, who I think is ERG sounding quite upbeat about wanting a deal and expecting the compromises would be made. Anyway, with an 80+ majority Boris isn't in hoc to the ERG any more. A few zealots are standing up for the UK fishermen, just as Macron is for his own, but the money they make is so small compared to the no-trade-deal hit I can't see that swaying the decision.

You may be right there, but somehow I doubt by compromise he means any from the UK side. The lead negotiator David Frost threatened to resign the other day when the moderates started considering making real compromise to get a deal over the line, in Downing Street, following the Biden win. Frost is quite a hard Brexiter. There was definitely a stand off of some sort in Downing St, Cummings and Cain either jumped, or were pushed during the same episode.

Perhaps the moderates have won, it would put Frost in a difficult position.

Yes, I occasionally veer this way, but obviously I feel bad for those who voted for Remain who are going to feel that pain.

Likewise, also I am conflicted because I will qualify for a Scottish passport should Scotland leave the Union. So part of me looks for that as a way out.

There was definitely a stand off of some sort in Downing St, Cummings and Cain either jumped, or were pushed during the same episode. — Punshhh

Yes, we havent heard much speculation about the background to that. I suppose Brexit is the most likely one as Cummings was such a die-hard Leaver. Boris though is a pragmatic politician and knows when to accept a partial victory. He's had few even of those recently!

I don't think there is going to be a debate for much longer about whether the Scots deserve a 2nd referendum; just whether the govt can get away with not giving them one. But as Sturgeon says, it's a lose-lose situation for Westminster, as the more they refuse, the more angry and insistent the independents will get, and the more of the undecided vote will swing their way.

Likewise, also I am conflicted because I will qualify for a Scottish passport should Scotland leave the Union. So part of me looks for that as a way out. — Punshhh

I wonder if I will... My mother's a Glasgae girl.

A good update from someone with his finger on the pulse. The rollercoaster (ghost train) is loaded up now and ready to roll. I expect it will set off just as Parliament goes into festive recess, they don't return until 7th January, so they will miss the starting gun.
https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/11/zenos-brexit.html

Interesting link in there to George Mombiot about the role of disaster capitalism.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/brexit-capitalism

Thanks, interesting take by Chris Grey. He ends up with:

It is not clear what crime we have committed to have to endure the endless torture of Brexit. — Chris Grey

That’s a good question.

That’s a good question.

One which I have many answers to, but few can be blamed for the act of Brexit itself, we may have to wait for the historians to give an answer. To me it goes back to William the Conquerer, although it probably goes back a lot further and has something to do with fish.

something to do with fish. — Punshhh

and chips...

My take is: the crime of anachronistic nationalism.

My take is: the crime of anachronistic nationalism. — Olivier5

Yes, but that's just a symptom of the even deeper crime; fear and ignorance, one that man will sadly never find redemption from. Of course - and even more sadly - it's not a crime really..

fear and ignorance, one that man will sadly never find redemption from. Of course - and even more sadly - it's not a crime really.. — Tim3003

It's a crime when it is engineered. Murdoch made sure that every 1 in 2 native English speakers in this world ends up a total moron by the age he or she can watch the tely.

It's a crime when it is engineered. Murdoch made sure that every 1 in 2 native English speakers in this world ends up a total moron by the age he or she can watch the tely. — Olivier5

"Engineered"? Murdoch simply sells papers by giving readers what they want, which is not challenging their ill-formed views and promoting fear of the unknown, but reinforcing them to promote outrage against the 'known' foreigners - simplistic stereotypes though they are.

"You can lead a horse to water..."

"Engineered"? Murdoch simply sells papers by giving readers what they want, which is not challenging their ill-formed views and promoting fear of the unknown, but reinforcing them to promote outrage against the 'known' foreigners - simplistic stereotypes though they are. — Tim3003

Engineered! The rich minority maintain their power by sowing dissension and setting the poor against the destitute, the slum-dwellers against the homeless, the Northerner against the Southerner, black against white, worker against sick or disabled, indigenous against incomer and so on and on and on.

Readers want what they are convinced to want and that is the basis of advertising, propaganda, and manipulation. And you know all this perfectly well and are spreading the same divisive propaganda yourself. Blame the people with the power and influence for the state of the world; blame the people who inform the ill-informed with simple stereotypes - blame yourself. Drink the water, leader of horses.

Readers want what they are convinced to want — unenlightened

So they don't have the wit or desire to think for themselves. QED.

Twas ever thus I'm afraid. Doubtless you think Marx was right. Unfortunately he didn't understand human nature either.

Doubtless you think Marx was right. — Tim3003

Doubtless you think Hitler was right.

"Engineered"? Murdoch simply sells papers by giving readers what they want, which is not challenging their ill-formed views and promoting fear of the unknown, but reinforcing them to promote outrage against the 'known' foreigners - simplistic stereotypes though they are. — Tim3003

Reenforced at least, if not engineered. Manipulated. Lied to. Flattered and fooled. Day after day, for years.

Another ‘crime’ of the UK, in my view, the original sin happened in the seventies: the UK joined a project it did not believe in. It joined the European project not to support it genuinely and positively, but to avoid being left out. Their heart was not in it. Hence they never invested much cultural and political capital in it.

the UK joined a project it did not believe in. It joined the European project not to support it genuinely and positively, but to avoid being left out. Their heart was not in it. Hence they never invested much cultural and political capital in it. — Olivier5

Yes. I think that was the price of thinking 'we won the war.' Britain was never humiliated the way the rest of Europe was, by invasion, defeat, or collaboration. The Swiss have the same problem. Still struggling to think we ever did anything wrong.

I have to agree with everything you say. It's about the privelidged classes maintaining their iron grip on the ordinary man/woman. Cracking the whip to keep them in their place, the place where they diligently work hard to generate the profits for their betters to cream it off.
The rot set in with Blair because he was not one of them (ideologically). He endangered the project with his welcoming in of the workers from the new Eastern European members of the EU. This was then compounded by the financial crisis of 2008. Leaving the rump of the privelidged dangerously exposed. Their grip of the reigns has been slipping ever since, to the extent that they are now desperate.

This is evidenced in the possibility that Corbyn could have won the election a year ago. The Tory's took a huge sigh of relief when they won and dodged that calamity. Now they will have to reassert their iron grip. They are well equipped with the means of whipping the prolls and the prolls lap it up and buckle down again.

They are doomed to failure though and the Tory's are now imploding, they will lash out any way they can as they sink. The problem is as can be observed in the polls and when one talks to the younger generation, that they have no political support amongst the young and are not portraying themselves in a good light at the moment. Indeed, it has become a horror show, guaranteed to put off any young voter.

Once Scotland leaves the Union, all hope will be lost, for the privelidged classes.

Their heart was not in it. Hence they never invested much cultural and political capital in it.

I have to agree, although there is a sizeable proportion of the UK population who does value the EU. Everyone I know, for example, except a few older folk. I would hazard a guess that over 20% of the population, it could be higher. The problem which lead to Brexit is that the ruling party, is constituted of ideological fanatics due to their anachronistic schooling, who despised membership of the EU from the beginning. The mass of the population was largely indifferent and was happy with the status quo.

Going back to why we joined in the 70's, it was a move to save our economy, as the sick man of Europe, we were in a desperate state and membership provided a well needed lifeline.

I have to agree, although there is a sizeable proportion of the UK population who does value the EU. — Punshhh

I know, but they are almost invisible in the media. I am unaware of any radically pro-European UK newspaper for instance.

The Swiss have the same problem. Still struggling to think we ever did anything wrong. — unenlightened

You’re Swiss?

No, from Albion.

Ak ok. Perfide Albion as we call it. :-))

Going back to why we joined in the 70's, it was a move to save our economy, as the sick man of Europe, we were in a desperate state and membership provided a well needed lifeline. — Punshhh

Didn’t know that. It’s a pretty good reason to join a trading block. And not to leave it I guess.

Yeah, we'll see them again in 12 to 20 years or so.