There is so much limitation through identifying with the ego — Jack Cummins
But I do like the your idea of the reorganisation of the ego as infinite. — Jack Cummins
I am an evolving process of self organization — Pop
Autopoiesis - systems theory as metaphysics — Pantagruel
I am consciousness — Pop
My definition of consciousness is: an evolving process of self organization — Pop
Consciousness is a property that certain objects have — Alvin Capello
My claim can be disproven by providing an instance of consciousness which is not in some way self organization. — Pop
The statement relates to Descartes I think therefore I am - I am what? — Pop
To put it more simply, all instances of consciousness might be instances of self-organization, but this does not imply that all instances of self-organization are instances of consciousness. — Alvin Capello
Indeed, there might not be a single instance of consciousness which is not in some way self-organization, — Alvin Capello
You are confusing 2 uses of the phrase "I am" here. You are taking Descartes to be using it in the predicative sense (i.e. when we say things like "I am green", "I am a man", etc.) But he is actually using it in the existential sense. More specifically, by saying "I am", he is just saying "I exist." Or in full form, "I think, therefore I exist." — Alvin Capello
I'm afraid they are, unless you can self organize unconsciously. — Pop
The role of consciousness is primarily to self organize. — Pop
I am exploring the phrase as completely as possible. — Pop
But if we use the every day understanding of consciousness, i.e. as first-person awareness or internal experience, then I can find many examples of unconscious self-organization. The most obvious examples are cells. Cells presumably don't have conscious experience, and yet they undergo self-organization. — Alvin Capello
This is completely irrelevant for understanding Descartes' claim, since he is only using "I am" in the existential sense. Bringing in other senses of the term can only lead to confusion, as your remarks on Descartes' claim above demonstrate. — Alvin Capello
As I've previously stated, in Panpsychism, consciousness ( self organization ) is a property everything possesses. Including cells. — Pop
Autopoiesis - systems theory as metaphysics
— Pantagruel
Thanks for that - I wasn't aware, I'll check it out. — Pop
Consciousness is a property — Alvin Capello
The way I see it, the process of self organization is innately self aware. It possesses a process-centric self awareness: — Pop
Here you've broached a subject on which I am woefully ignorant. I find panpsychism to be deeply interesting, but I can't comment on it, since I haven't read the strongest arguments for it. — Alvin Capello
My apologies for not studying this board further before opening my mouth but, damn, intelligent conversation on the web? Will wonders never cease? — Whickwithy
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