What makes you say that?
— Xtrix

What do you mean? — Brett

What makes you say any of the characteristics you mention?

I'm not sure you're understanding what is being called for here. I'm not interested in individual biographies.

A bit of experience, a bit of reading, a bit of reasoning. If you like you could post which ones you think are wrong or don’t make sense.

I'm not sure you're understanding what is being called for here. — Xtrix

What is being called for then?

The argument was that the rich are rich because they inherited money. So I gave some examples of where that is not true.

I was thinking more in terms of ideologies and values, — Xtrix

Then you have to know who they are instead of just determining it from prejudices.

This isn’t admiration. It’s an attempt to work out what sort of people they are. I also posted the negative aspects of such people. — Brett

Yes but this is hardly research, Brett. Your list of positive or negative attributes doesn't tell us much, other than your own intuitions about the matter. Without historical or documentary evidence, etc., it's not very helpful.

I have a hunch that most of the wealthiest people, the people making the real decisions in corporations, abide by a neoliberal ideology. I suspect most of them are from the Protestant tradition, etc. But I can't prove any of this -- hence why I started this thread. I'm looking for research. Jane Mayer has done some good work on this, but in a narrower sense.

s but this is hardly research, Brett. — Xtrix

No, it’s a group of people with opinions discussing something.

Your list of positive or negative attributes doesn't tell us much, other than your own intuitions about the matter. — Xtrix

Tell me where I’m wrong then.

What I was getting at, which probably was not made clear enough, is that if someone or a collective of workers is going to buy or build a factory then they’re going to have to borrow money. — Brett

Only if someone else has all the money, not the workers.

Why is all the money collected somewhere else that the workers need to borrow it from, instead of just pooling their own savings together?

It's hard to imagine the degree of ideological indoctrination it takes to make up fantasy lists of supposed behavioural and psycological traits of the 1% - assuming they can be totalized as a group outside the narrow metric of wealth - and then have the gall to ask to be proven wrong. People like Brett really think this is character creation in D&D or something. 10 points to charisma! -4 to humility! Fucking larping rubbish.

Well tell me which ones are incorrect, just do it instead of waving your hands around.

assuming they can be totalized as a group outside the narrow metric of wealth - — StreetlightX

Isn’t that what’s being done here?

No you fuck, you don't get to make shit up and ask to be proven wrong.

Pathetic response. Just delete the ones you don’t agree with.

To achieve that they would need to do what 1% did, which is build a business from scratch and produce the same wealth that so many resent the 1% having. — Brett

You're giving yourself away when you talk like this. So many tacit assumptions.



Thanks for the recommendations.

There are a number of studies about who these people are, and how they operate. If you want to know more (much more) about wealth and power, start with G. William Domhoff, Distinguished Professor Emeritus and Research Professor at the University of California, Santa Cruz. His four books are among the highest rated titles in sociology (OK, not the same as the best selling books on Amazon).

Who Rules America? (1967, #12)
The Higher Circles (1970, #39)
The Powers That Be (1979, #47)
Who Rules America Now? (1983, #43) — Bitter Crank

Thank you -- I'll check these out. Much appreciated.

How would you enforce this, how would you manage human behaviour? — Brett

What exactly are you attributing to "human behavior"? The profit motive? Seems like the age-old argument that capitalism aligns better with human nature than socialism or other systems.

It's utter nonsense, in my view, but I'm willing to hear you out if that's not your argument.

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing its the fact that you fabricated shit out of thin air and expect anyone to put in any effort to take that shit seriously.

A bit of experience, a bit of reading, a bit of reasoning. If you like you could post which ones you think are wrong or don’t make sense. — Brett

It's not that they don't make sense -- but whether it's accurate or not, who knows? And why should I believe you? I'm looking for research and evidence -- not opinions, however educated and reasonable they may sound.

The argument was that the rich are rich because they inherited money. — Brett

Fine -- but that's not my argument, and not the point of starting this thread.

Then you have to know who they are instead of just determining it from prejudices. — Brett

I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of people, Brett. So clearly I'm not expecting one to go through each individual biography. I'm looking more for general statistical actions. Apparently there is scholarship out there which people (like Bitter Crank) have recommended; that's what I was looking for from people here.

No, it’s a group of people with opinions discussing something. — Brett

Tell me where I’m wrong then. — Brett

You're missing the point. I'm not saying you're wrong. But neither can you tell me *I'm* wrong if I made the claim that "the rich are sociopaths." Without evidence, what's the sense of giving opinions? I didn't ask for opinions, I asked for research.

I asked for research. — Xtrix

Okay, my apologies for thinking about it.

its the fact that you fabricated shit out of thin air and expect anyone to put in any effort to take that shit seriously. — StreetlightX

Like the idea that they work hard. Hardly fabricated.

And that's supposed to be some kind of differentia specifica? What's next? That most of them have skin? Vacuity in place of fabrication. Wonderful.

In any case considering that most of the rich have their money tied up in assets which are managed by other people, there's every chance that the rich can indeed be lazy do-nothings. If we're working off lazy stereotypes, I have every confidence that my local bus driver works far harder than some trust fund baby somewhere. But that's neither here nor there, given that making shit up based on lazy preconceptions is a shit way to argue.

You're giving yourself away when you talk like this. So many tacit assumptions. — Xtrix

Giving myself away as what? And speaking of assumptions what about:

The general trend is the 1% aren't self-made but inherit their wealth and social advantage. — apokrisis

Just tell me none of this is true.


1: They’re very hard workers

2: They’re very good a setting an objective and then making a plan to get there

3: They’re very good at projecting into the future

4: They’re very adaptable

5: Many of them are very innovative

6: They’re very good at choosing people to work with, understanding them, motivating them

7: They inspire people within their circle

8: They have a through understanding of the world they’re operating in

9: They’re very good at networking

No, I'm not engaging with shit you pulled out of your arse other than to call it out for having been pulled out of your arse.

What exactly are you attributing to "human behavior"? The profit motive? — Xtrix

In none of those characteristics have I mentioned the “profit motive”. I’m talking about the nature of people to work hard, to work with like minded people, to project into the future.

Then as Banno would say “Fuck off”.

Aw, you upset that your larping isn't being taken seriously?

Why is all the money collected somewhere else that the workers need to borrow it from, instead of just pooling their own savings together? — Pfhorrest

Sure they can pool their own savings, but it’s unlikely to be enough to buy a factory and machinery.

You're giving yourself away when you talk like this. So many tacit assumptions.
— Xtrix — Brett

Apparently there is scholarship out there which people (like Bitter Crank) have recommended; that's what I was looking for from people here. — Xtrix

So you don’t yet know what the answers are, which is why you want research, but you know I’m wrong. How do you explain that?