You know, of course, that it is all just physics. Where you go wrong is thinking that this makes it pointless and meaningless. All along, it was up to you to give it meaning, to find a purpose. — Banno
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
It's experience, Janus. It's not complicated. — frank
I'm just spinning in the void shooting out woo tangents like lighting bolts — frank
And I'm just shivering qualia in a p-zombie apocalypse. I think on The Walking Dead they briefly showed the zombie consciousness of an important character when they turned. Turns out, there is something it's like to want brains. — Marchesk
you say so then it must be so, I guess. So, if it is just the same notion as experience then why do we need it? That's the question no one seems to be able to answer. — Janus
Neittz also suggested that the natural environment may not have sufficient hues of colours to harness the full potentials of tetrachromatic vision. He said that people with four cones may be helped to develop full tetrachromatic vision if they regularly visit a lab where they are exposed to vision experiences that will help then develop the cognitive skills to identify a richer variety of hues.
...the concept of experience... — frank
which is just the notion of conscious awareness of things — Janus
Dreams don't seem like a movie is going on in the mind, except with the additional feeling of your body? — Marchesk
To All:
You can't tell us what qualia are, because they are ineffable.
And you cannot show them to us what they are, because they are private.
Were this any other argument, you would join us in rejecting them. — Banno
...all you have done is engage in the circular argument that the biological machinery cannot tell us about the qualia, and the qualia are what the biological machinery cannot tell us about. — Banno
The constant refrain of the idealist.
"X is not amenable to empirical evidence from the material world of the physical sciences" - before proceeding to expound exactly how an understanding of X should impact our behaviour in the aforementioned material world. — Isaac
As near as I can tell dreams are just like real life; I'm immersed in a world, only it's often a much more bizarre world. I certainly don't experience them, just as I don't with movies, as being "in the mind". It's more like I'm in the movie. — Janus
Ohhhh I see. All this feigned ignorance of seeing colours, tasting tea and feeling pain is done in the service of maintaining physicalism. Admitting the obvious might upset the physicalism gods. — Luke
A 3rd grader with a calculator understands integral calculus. And a blind person equipped with a spectrometer that says the associated color of the wavelength it receives knows what color is. — khaled
how does the patient tell between blunt force pain and stabbing pain? — khaled
Neither of these uses implies "fake experience". Which is what I say doesn't make sense. — khaled
I am not basing my information of whether or not I have mental experiences on whether or not I reach for the word red. I am having a mental experience, as a matter of fact, and I am reaching for the word red to explain it. — khaled
How about "stimuli cause experiences and also responses"? That's more what I think is happening. — khaled
When did I do that? As in even claim that an understanding of X (qualia that is not my own) is possible. — khaled
There is a non sequitor there. Why is it the case the if X is not amenable to empirical evidence that that should not impact our behaviour? — khaled
Echoing what Daemon said earlier, your view has consequences in the realm of morality. If we ask what it's like to be a rape victim, the answer would be: tachycardia, hypertension, soft tissue trauma, inflammatory response, etc. — frank
This is one of the many reasons this view, which we might call p-zombieism, is going to be a hard sell. A lot of people will just be revolted by it. — frank
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html
I don't know, of course, that physics is all there is. — Marchesk
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
Simply claiming your position to be 'obvious' is a lame argument. Do you really expect anyone to take that seriously? — Isaac
Nerve endings can distinguish between those different types of pain, plus the thalamus helps to distinguish based on experiences. — Isaac
I'd 'faked' the experience, you wouldn't know what on earth I was talking about? — Isaac
There's just no evidence of this — Isaac
I am having a mental experience, as a matter of fact, and I am reaching for the word red to explain it.
Yep. Those two things are happening. — Isaac
if it goes stimuli>experience>response — Isaac
If it goes stimuli>response>experience — Isaac
assuming not, then you have to at least take seriously the evidence from neuroscience which opposes this view. — Isaac
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