I doubt it. It would take an extraordinary reversal of mindset from the Brits to even ask to go back in the EU. They would need to adore what they burnt, burn what they adored, etc. Not gona happen. Also, the EU is unlikely to let them in a second time. Too much trouble.

I'm inclined to agree, although I think it is is highly unpredictable in the short term. It will depend on the fortunes of the Conservative party, who are burning a lot of bridges and have little support from the young. Along with how it plays out with Scotland. Scotland may be knocking at the EU's door in only a few years time.

So even after - what is it - 5 years, it's still a cliffhanger. Deal or no deal? What was that cowboy film where the hero took 32 bullets while staggering across a river? It's like that. The only reason it's not much in the news is that it doesn't have Trump's 'color and movement' factor.

So even after - what is it - 5 years, it's still a cliffhanger. Deal or no deal? — Wayfarer

There will be a deal, no sweat. The failure would be too huge for either side to justify it. Both would be villified by their own supporters, and all their opponents. They'd be humiliated and taunts of 'resign' would be in the air. Only a few rabid Farragists would be happy.

The talks are frenetic as both sides think that the deadline is the end of Sunday, in two days time. Rumours are flying around about concessions, breakthroughs and the sides moving farther apart rather than closer. So in reality it's headless chickens running around in circles.

Johnson might have a bit of a compromise in mind on the level playing field in state aid, but it's not going to be enough and only if the UK gets all the fish. Yesterday France came down solidly behind protecting their fisheries. Macron is under intense pressure from the right wing in France not to buckle on this point and he has elections in the summer.

If they don't reach an agreement by Sunday the UK parliament is to bring back the internal market bill, the bill to break the withdrawal agreement and a finance statement which will drive a wedge through any trust on Tuesday.

So no one can see anything close to a deal at this stage, while tempers are rising and a breakdown in talks is imminent.

If you want a sober commentary check out @tconnellyRTE, #TonyConnelly.

There will be a deal, no sweat. — Tim3003

No sweat?!? I think there's literally buckets of sweat pouring out of the brows of a large number of people right about now.

If they don't reach an agreement by Sunday... — Punshhh

So - this Sunday is the actual, final, drop-dead, once-and-for-all deadline. It seems there have been so many missed deadlines, so many moving goalposts, in this saga.

Boris will eat shit to get a deal and tell everyone how good the lobster was.

We'll see. At least now there appears to be an actual deadline, unlike the interminable Teresa May years.

Well really the deadline is 10.59pm GMT 31st December, but it's not that simple, I've heard talk of crashing the deadline and softening up the other side with a bit of cold hard reality for a few months and then restart next spring, or summer.

The problem we are all going to have to face, is that Johnson and the government is disingenuous and can't be trusted to honour any agreement. So the EU is looking for cast iron legal text of sanction when Johnson reneges. Even with that and it happens the relations will continue to sour.

:groan:

I'm hoping the government collapses by about the end of January and Starmer can step into the breach.

well Starmer seems a much more likely prospect than Corbyn ever did, from where I sit, but the Tories have a huge majority, don't they? I mean, again and again, it just seems to me that the whole Brexit idea has been an unmitigated disaster from the start, and now that COVID-19 has been added to the situation, it's going from bad to worse.

Yes it's a perfect storm and very scary. We just have to hope we can avoid economic collapse. The one bit of positivity which there may be is that the people who brought this about will feel the pain and have to own it and that it breaks the stranglehold of the Tory's who have been hollowing out the country for a generation.

No sweat?!? I think there's literally buckets of sweat pouring out of the brows of a large number of people right about now. — Wayfarer

I'm guessing Boris isn't one of them.

So - this Sunday is the actual, final, drop-dead, once-and-for-all deadline. It seems there have been so many missed deadlines, so many moving goalposts, in this saga. — Punshhh

Is this Sunday the final deadline? We'll see. 4 weeks are still left and it's amazing how seemingly fixed barriers can move. Still, the fact that Boris is getting involved is indeed a sign. Remember the Brexit talks? He stepped in at the last moment and pulled a deal out of the fire, basically by removing one of his own red-lines. It's true that his support among Tories isn't as cast-iron as it was then, but he's a risk taker, so it's a precedent I suspect..

Following Johnson's phone call with von der Leyen the mood is down beat. The talks can't go anywhere now and the Internal market bill comes back to the commons on Monday.

We're going over the cliff edge.

The talks are definitely breaking down. Following a briefing of European leaders over the last couple of days by Barnier, they are expressing concern that Barnier could go to far in attempts to try and get something agreed. Many have said that if the deal is not water tight on the level playing field they will veto any deal during ratification. France is getting tougher on fish for pressing internal reasons and due to a lack of trust that the UK would try to stick his them up on fish.

This is what dampened optimism yesterday with the UK now accusing the EU of bringing new demands to the table, for once they are right. Suggests Johnson lost his rag during call with Von der Layen.

There is talk of the ERG buoyed by the sight of no deal, going for ripping up the Withdrawl agreement next so as to pay none of the agreed outstanding payments to the EU for ongoing projects and commitments.

The EU is feeling more cautious now as they realise that they are negotiating with entirely unreliable actors, who will say anything to get a concession and then backtrack later. They will not be bullied. There will be lots of shouting now.

Johnson has just taken a bite of the shit, but the're kicking the can down the road on the Northern Ireland issue. We may be back to 50:50, but I expect pushback from France and Co, tomorrow.

Pantomime. It all has to look like Boris is fighting the British Bulldog's corner and has pulled a stonking last-minute compromise out of the intransigent EU eggheads.

Well I would say that's the optimistic perspective. For me it's more like the politics before the First World War. We just need someone to approach someone with a poison tipped umbrella and its game over.

"Boris Johnson backs down by offering to drop law-breaking Brexit clauses
Boris Johnson has backed down and offered to drop the clauses in the Brexit Bill that would break international law, in a bid to break the deadlock in the talks."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-deal-boris-johnson-eu-b1767199.html#post-391971

See how the pantomime works? Leak some tough guy BS to your right-wing press poodles to grab the morning headlines and cloak the fact that you've begun capitulation as per the above which came later.

Boris's mid-week lunch.

Looks like he's going to be dining with Ursula in Brussels, I hope he doesn't take one of those tasty burgers with him.

"Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has been reminded that he swore on his job that the government would not back down on the Internal Market Bill.

Hours after MPs voted to reinstate clauses which break international law into the Brexit bill after the Lords rejected them, Gove announced that it would drop parts of the legislation after reaching an "agreement in principle" on the Northern Ireland protocol.

The minister said he was "delighted" to have reached an agreement, meaning controversial parts of the Bill would be withdrawn.

The u-turn has prompted people to remind Gove of the comments he made on Sky News when the bill was first proposed in September.

Back then presenter Sam Coates told the Brexiteer: "This government is known, famed perhaps even, for its u-turns.

"Do you swear, on your job, that the government will not back down on this?"

Gove agreed with his remarks. He replied: "Yes, I made it perfectly clear to vice president Šefčovič that we will not be withdrawing this legislation, and he understood that, and of course he regretted that."

Yum yum...

One more day to full capitulation.

So they'll eat shit burgers and say how delicious the cake is, cakism.

I doubt they can smuggle it past the rabid dogs, but will the right wing rags throw those dogs under the bus, or support them to the hilt? Perhaps it's Murdock who gets to decide, rather than Blojo.

The right wing rags would suffer financially from Brexit too but, like Boris, they also gain by pretending
they're Turkey's who want Christmas. Both are up to their eyeballs in the same BS.



No quarter given on sovereignty!

I get what you’re saying about Johnson’s strategy, but I take a more pessimistic view, in reference to getting a deal. EU member states are moving in the direction of no deal, to cut Johnson loose as toxic.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1336403947163164673

Also Johnson will have to swallow the whole package from the EU, I can’t see him doing that. Although I can see him having a complete about turn in a few days time when the experts remind him how damaging and counterproductive no deal will be.

I see Johnson as a lazy clown who believes in nothing, and so will cave rather than deal with the destruction Brexit will wreak on the UK (which will also make him look like an idiot for his claims that a no-deal would be just fine). That's more or less the extent of my reasoning here. I could be wrong and he's more of a self-destructive ideologue, but I've seen nothing to change my mind yet.

So he may cave when the experts spell it out to him what a shitshow no deal is. I can go with that. But it will throw a lit match into the dead wood of his party.
Breaking news, Honda has shut down production due to importation delays. The show is already starting. I heard of three or four other stories like this today.